FFDShow upscaled TV adn Xvids looks worse than SD

[clobber]

Hi,

So, I'm running my SD satellite service STB into my MP HTPC using composite cable connected to a PVR-150 PCI card. A couple of observations I don't understand:

1) When viewing the video from My TV and not using any post processing, I would say the video looks slightly worse than just running the signal into my HDTV. Its a bit darker and fuzzier (not much). I don't have that problem with any of the other content I play (xvids look great).

2) Applying the ffdshow upscaling filters (resize, blur & NR, sharpen), pretty much make the picture look even worse.


3) Upscaling even makes xvids look worse. I'm actually impressed how good 350MB Xvids look on the screen in the video's native resolution (some where around 600 x 350. However, when I upscale them to 1080p there is a degradation. I've read other posts where people using xsharpen thing it works great. So, am I missing something?

I'm not expecting a miracle here, but I'm surprised both xvids and SD TV look worse when I try to postprocess. Thoughts?

[kmark40]

I'm with you on this. I get the same trying to upscale dvd via the kmplayer/mediaportal route. The pq is awful. Obviously ffdshow must be doing something right as it is highly regarded. I followed the tips given on projecthtpc and although the osd shows that output is 1920x1080, the pq is well shoddy.

Hello btw. 1st post

[Crabstick]

Hi,

Are you trying to scale interlaced content? If yes, you have two settings that need to be enabled in FFDSHOW:
1. In resize filter select the "interlaced" checkbox in the filter settings.
2. In output tab, "set interlaced flag to output" checkbox and "bob".

See if it helps. You weren't very specific about how the PQ sucks. The content not being deinterlaced is just my guess.

[kmark40]

In my case its pal dvd's, which are I guess 720 x 576p. I was under the impression that all dvd's were progressive rather than interlaced? I have re-enabled it and it does look better (haven't tried your settings yet though). In fast motion, it seems like the ffdshow scaling struggles to keep up as there is "judder" or some kind of lag. I'll try changing the refresh rate of the graphics card to 50hz and see if that makes any difference. Thanks for the advice.

[clobber]

Crabstick,

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, the SD TV from my STB should be interlaced so I will try your suggestion later this evening. I'm not sure how to describe the poor quality (PQ?) any better other than to say things are a bit darker and not as sharp (e.g. the channel logo is not as clear, and neither is anything else). I think the settings you suggested are all in the resize settings? I will certainly try that, but right now the video is worse without and filters applied.

Also, I assume that the typical downloaded xvid would not be interlaced? If your suggestion works, I'd need to figure out a way to deinterlace only the STB video but not the xvids?

Thanks!

[Crabstick]

Originally Posted by kmark40

In my case its pal dvd's, which are I guess 720 x 576p. I was under the impression that all dvd's were progressive rather than interlaced? I have re-enabled it and it does look better (haven't tried your settings yet though). In fast motion, it seems like the ffdshow scaling struggles to keep up as there is "judder" or some kind of lag. I'll try changing the refresh rate of the graphics card to 50hz and see if that makes any difference. Thanks for the advice.

DVDs may be either progressive or interlaced or both (partially interlaced). I think you are on the right track about the judder. If source is 25 FPS, your display needs to be at 25 or 50 Hz.

Originally Posted by clobber

Also, I assume that the typical downloaded xvid would not be interlaced? If your suggestion works, I'd need to figure out a way to deinterlace only the STB video but not the xvids?

Yes, XVID is usually progressive. You can make an FFDSHOW profiles for XVIDs and STB and then create autoloading rules for those. In this case you could load the XVID profile based on the FOURCC code (select all related to xvid or divx) and since your STB resolution is fixed you can use that as a rule for STB profile.

When you say the video gets "darker" when upscaling it may be related to different colour spaces used for SD and HD. At least ATI cards use different values for anything less than 720p (SD) and different values for anything over that (HD).
I have struggled months with washed out SD picture with my setup. It took me long to figure this one out. Problem was that everything that was less than 720p (including all mkv files with res like 1280x544) got really gray blacks and poor contrast. Solution is to scale the image to at least 1280x720 in ffdshow. This works for everything else other than DVB.
For some reason the deinterlacing in ATI drivers gets broken if I try to scale DVB picture in any way. Now, in order to get my DVB picture perfect, I had to insert a registry hack "UseBT601CSC=1" in the driver registry settings and reboot. Now everything rendered by the driver gets the same colour codes and black level and contrast is great.
I could go on forever about different tweaks, settings and hacks I have made to make my rig perform, but I think I'll save it. All I can say that finally after months of struggle everything works as it should and I'm happy. If you are interested (and have 780G board or similar ATI card) I'll be glad to help.

[kmark40]

Originally Posted by Crabstick

Hi,

Are you trying to scale interlaced content? If yes, you have two settings that need to be enabled in FFDSHOW:
1. In resize filter select the "interlaced" checkbox in the filter settings.
2. In output tab, "set interlaced flag to output" checkbox and "bob".

See if it helps. You weren't very specific about how the PQ sucks. The content not being deinterlaced is just my guess.

tried the settings and they blur the picture, so took them off. tried changing the refresh rate to 50hz, which helped a lot. can still see a slight speedng up and slowng down of motion. the main consistent problem is an ever present grain over the picture and a slight "halo" or shadow around objects, mainly people. Any ideas?

Thanks
Kirk

[frankwaan]

Having excatly the same problems (also the light judder when post processing my PAL dvd's). Tried using reclock 1.8 also, but this shouldn't be the way, since the original refresh rate is 25 fps. Without ffdshow (using MS MPEG2 codec or PowerDVD 8 gives no judder).

I hope somebody has a good explination or solution so my DVD's show up smootly with post processing (upscaling)!

[baja]

Best upscaling for dvd on computer is Corel's Windvd 9+, Just try u are not going to belive your eyes