HTPC: tickets please....

[Ruud]

Originally Posted by Gixxer

i agree with the volume and extra control part. maybe just set the volume to the maximum and then control it using the speaker controls.

btw, u got a bit mixed up with the quotes names

Hi Gixxer,
sorry for the name mix up.... just corrected it (I think )
What do you mean with using the speaker controls?

kr.
Ruud.

[Gixxer]

Originally Posted by Ruud

Hi Gixxer,
sorry for the name mix up.... just corrected it (I think )
What do you mean with using the speaker controls?

kr.
Ruud.

http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/at...e-img_2495.jpg

looking at that picture i thought the box at the left was the speake controler. nevermind, great work on that system.

[Ruud]

Originally Posted by Gixxer

looking at that picture i thought the box at the left was the speake controler. nevermind, great work on that system.

Nope, that is the Amplifier. Will be build in the cabinet.
greetings,
Ruud.

[kesar]

Hi Ruud,
Your DIY amazing machine inspired me. Since I'm done with my first HTPC and it works flawlessly, it's time for the next stage. Lately I've been looking for a new case with LCD touch screen. I read about some of them and it seems this solution is rather immature. There are many issues regarding screen resolution, dual view, GPU drivers, etc. So I was enlightened with your beautiful machine. I've been thinking: wow, I can also build a 'piece of the art furniture' like this myself. This is why I would like to use some of your experience and I have a few questions:
1. Could you describe more detailed all the drawbacks of the touchscreen solution with MP;
2. What are the downsides of your build;
3. I already started to draw some designs and was experimenting with shapes; I didn't find any better form, I mean more functional and ergonomic; any advice?
4. I'm not sure about all the physical interfaces; I rather need some output and input sockets: to the amp, to the tv, some usb's, wifi anthena, PCI cards mounting, etc. So I'm wondering how to design it. Certainly I could use the plate of a regular computer case and cut the unnesessary parts off, but your solution looks very clean and elegant any remarks will be highly appreciated.

Here are my 'first version' requirements concerning my build:
- all main functionalities of MP excluding TV;
- dual screen mode - I found 10'' screen with native resolution just like my TV 1366/768;
- VNC management;
- iMON pilot management;
- use most of the currently owned hardware - I'm thinking about replacing PSU with passive cooling - I want to end up with only one fan - currentlny I have two, main 120mm on the side wall of the case, second in PSU;
- I need DVD drive slot-in like yours (I'm not sure with this, do I need this? I have all my media archived on hard disks); the rest is fine and works;
- maybe a universal card reader - atm don't need it, but for the future purposes;

Best regards,
kesar

[Ruud]

Originally Posted by kesar

Hi Ruud,
Your DIY amazing machine inspired me. Since I'm done with my first HTPC and it works flawlessly, it's time for the next stage. Lately I've been looking for a new case with LCD touch screen. I read about some of them and it seems this solution is rather immature. There are many issues regarding screen resolution, dual view, GPU drivers, etc. So I was enlightened with your beautiful machine. I've been thinking: wow, I can also build a 'piece of the art furniture' like this myself. This is why I would like to use some of your experience and I have a few questions:

Hi Kesar, thanks for your post. Good to hear that my DIY machine inspired you.
I will go thru your questions one by one, and I will add to my first posts 2 sections: 1 stating the things that I would do again (the positive ones), 2 'second time around': what would I change due to new (technical) insights.

Here we go.....

Originally Posted by kesar

1. Could you describe more detailed all the drawbacks of the touchscreen solution with MP;

Positive of using the 7" touchscreen in clone mode is that you need no additional software: everything that you see on your TV, you see also on your touchscreen -> no maintenance needed (as in additional software that turns your additional screen in one with only menus etc.)
Downside can best be experienced by trying to use MP with a one button mouse (use only the left click button of your mouse). -> normal scrolling menus cannot be used (they fly up and down and selecting what you need feels like a Russian roulette. So you have to switch to the basic home screen (xface won't work because here also the basic home rotates....) Basic input works, but what I miss is (in random order) volume, mute, context menu. So for starting a movie / radio I use the touchscreen but when it comes to more I always use the combination of touchscreen and remote (this is actually lightning fast).

Originally Posted by kesar

2. What are the downsides of your build;

None so far, other then that people that visit think I try to sell train tickets.... hence the title 'tickets please' LOL
well okay: CPU is not (yet) up to par with HD content, but that will change when there will be usable decoders that properly use my Video card.
General problem: computer hardware is not well known for it's high fidelity: there is interference via the cabling on the amplifier (humming sound). Yesterday I stumbled upon and purchased a 'Ground Loop Isolator': when I receive it I will post back my findings.
Ground loop noise is also a common problem in the DJ scene as they use more and more laptops connected to their amplifiers...

Originally Posted by kesar

3. I already started to draw some designs and was experimenting with shapes; I didn't find any better form, I mean more functional and ergonomic; any advice?

Good question: I had several designs (on paper) but ended up with this one. Main reason for this design is the touchscreen: it is on the perfect hight and angle to be used very easilly. Sometimes I see HTPC cases with build in (front) 7" screens, but these will only work (don't shoot me: just my opinion) when the screen can be tilted or the case is placed on a higher level (I don't fancy kneeling down for every action probably age related )
You mention functional and ergonomic, but don't forget technical (mainly the inside of the case: heat, airflow, cabling length, connecting / disconnecting appliances etc.)
No advise other then to give it your best shot (and the do it again after having a visionary dream about it hahahaha)

Originally Posted by kesar

4. I'm not sure about all the physical interfaces; I rather need some output and input sockets: to the amp, to the tv, some usb's, wifi anthena, PCI cards mounting, etc. So I'm wondering how to design it. Certainly I could use the plate of a regular computer case and cut the unnesessary parts off, but your solution looks very clean and elegant any remarks will be highly appreciated.

My advise: keep it simple! what is must have, what is nice to have? making concessions to your design because you want to connect something once a year.... I only have one input in the case (on the back side): power cable and switch (with fuse): this because I want to be able to simply switch of the power without pulling the plug or opening the case. All other cables run via the bottom of the case (these never need to be plugged or unplugged) for me the amount of work of making for all these cables nice connectors on the outside of the case does not weigh against the actual usage benefits. Using a old computer case is a good idea as you can hide this with your new case and it will save you a lot of work (although that is also part of the hobby)

Originally Posted by kesar

Here are my 'first version' requirements concerning my build:
- all main functionalities of MP excluding TV;
- dual screen mode - I found 10'' screen with native resolution just like my TV 1366/768;
- VNC management;
- iMON pilot management;
- use most of the currently owned hardware - I'm thinking about replacing PSU with passive cooling - I want to end up with only one fan - currentlny I have two, main 120mm on the side wall of the case, second in PSU;
- I need DVD drive slot-in like yours (I'm not sure with this, do I need this? I have all my media archived on hard disks); the rest is fine and works;
- maybe a universal card reader - atm don't need it, but for the future purposes;

I have no experience with iMON pilot management, further go the 'passive' route but think of your 'airflow'. Do you have an other PC that has a DVD drive or universal card readers: can you use these to put the content via your network on your HTPC?

I have tried wireless, but this was always a disappointment. I am using now a wired connection, but also have good experience with a power plug (Ethernet via your power supply cabling) -> this gives appr. the same performance as Wireless (speed) but without the 'variable' speed.

Originally Posted by kesar

Best regards,
kesar

Looking forward to your reply / thoughts
kind regards.
Ruud.

[kesar]

Thanks a lot for your reply, Ruud.
I'm in 'designing obsession phase' right now. I just draw, count milimeters and look for suitable hardware in Internet. I appreciate if you could review my design, when I finish it.
Currently I'm looking for a new lcd touch screen. Do you think 8'' or even 7'' wide screen (16:9) will be fine? I mean the ergonomics, finger touch, etc.? As an alternative I have 10.4'' but this one is 4:3 or I should aim at 12''. This is the biggest I consider.

xface won't work because here also the basic home rotates...

This sucks, I use xface and I love it.

Sometimes I see HTPC cases with build in (front) 7" screens, but these will only work (don't shoot me: just my opinion) when the screen can be tilted or the case is placed on a higher level (I don't fancy kneeling down for every action probably age related )

Yeah, I imagined me everytime I want to play some music I have to bow down on my knees. It's not the way I want to use my HTPC.

My advise: keep it simple!

I will, have to think about this.

further go the 'passive' route but think of your 'airflow'

Yes, I know this is the main challange. You will assess my drawings, hopefully

Do you have an other PC that has a DVD drive or universal card readers: can you use these to put the content via your network on your HTPC?

That's true. I don't need DVD, but card reader must stay. I will need it for my video camera media. The same with WLAN. The idea of Ethernet via power supply is nice, but I have a few computers at home and some of them are laptops, so no wires if I want all of them in my LAN.

Thanks again for your valuable advices. I count on you regarding your further coaching
Greetings,
kesar

[PussyWagon]

Hi there Ruud and thanx for a very interesting reading!
Im really glad to find your thread as this is something i right now is working on and this gave me much inspiration and a lots of question for you...

Me too is using the monochrome skin for the touch screen purpose, its really brilliant... Large and nice looking buttons, easy to press with your finger, clean and easy overview menues!

My purpose is to get my touch screen to be built in, in the wall... to easily navigate and turn on music/radio, looking the todays weather and so on. As you my priority for the touch screen is only this. And then when turning on a movie my projector is beeing used (this with automatization, projector and receiver is turning on via RS232 protocoll, and also the RF lights is dimming down and on relative to movie mode as Pause, Play and Stop.) All this through Mediaportal!

But im not there yet... but i know its possible and not THAT hard to do, only one of a hell of configuration and many spending hours to get it working propertly!

Im a little confused about your configuration, are you using the "ticket station" only as a VNC client to remote your HTPC that is connected to your tv? If you are, how does this work with lagging and slow respons on your touch screen?
If you are not, then how do you make the two difference resolution to work with the small touch screen and your tv in clone mode?

Do you have any possibility to do a movie shot on your configuration and how its working IRL? This would have been really interesting to look at...

Best regards!

[Ruud]

Originally Posted by PussyWagon

Hi there Ruud and thanx for a very interesting reading!
Im really glad to find your thread as this is something i right now is working on and this gave me much inspiration and a lots of question for you...

Me too is using the monochrome skin for the touch screen purpose, its really brilliant... Large and nice looking buttons, easy to press with your finger, clean and easy overview menues!

My purpose is to get my touch screen to be built in, in the wall... to easily navigate and turn on music/radio, looking the todays weather and so on. As you my priority for the touch screen is only this. And then when turning on a movie my projector is beeing used (this with automatization, projector and receiver is turning on via RS232 protocoll, and also the RF lights is dimming down and on relative to movie mode as Pause, Play and Stop.) All this through Mediaportal!

But im not there yet... but i know its possible and not THAT hard to do, only one of a hell of configuration and many spending hours to get it working propertly!

Im a little confused about your configuration, are you using the "ticket station" only as a VNC client to remote your HTPC that is connected to your tv? If you are, how does this work with lagging and slow respons on your touch screen?
If you are not, then how do you make the two difference resolution to work with the small touch screen and your tv in clone mode?

Do you have any possibility to do a movie shot on your configuration and how its working IRL? This would have been really interesting to look at...

Best regards!

Hi PussyWagon,
thanks for your email. Sounds like a very interesting project you are working on...
just a quick response on your VNC question: I only use VNC for configuration and maintenance purposes. My HTPC does not have a keyboard / mouse connected so every week when I load e.g. a new SVN I will use VNC to take over the PC (I turn Mediaportal of because it does not work via VNC (lagging etc...) So VNC is installed as a service and only used for servicing the HTPC.

The TV and 7" are cloned (via a split VGA cable) they both use the 1360 x 768 resolution

Hope this makes things a little more clear / less confusing.

regards,
Ruud.

[PussyWagon]

Ah, ok... thought that VNC where to laggy!

Great for you that you could use the samer resolution for both of your screens...
My problem is that I want to use 1280x720p on my projection screen and 1024x768 on my touch screen.... and this seems to be a BIG problem! Do you know any way to come around this problem? If i'm using two different graphic-card is it possible to use different resolution with clone mode activated?

Ciao

[Ruud]

Originally Posted by PussyWagon

Ah, ok... thought that VNC where to laggy!

Great for you that you could use the samer resolution for both of your screens...
My problem is that I want to use 1280x720p on my projection screen and 1024x768 on my touch screen.... and this seems to be a BIG problem! Do you know any way to come around this problem? If i'm using two different graphic-card is it possible to use different resolution with clone mode activated?

Ciao

What happens when you connect your touch screen to your video card when resolution is set to 720P format? can it handle this (with black bars on top and bottom (because your touch screen is 4:3 format opposed to yours beamer wittch is 16:9) or does it display nothing at all? As far as I know (please somebody correct me if I'm wrong) is the refresh frequency the limiting factor: if your video card is set to a refresh frequency for your beamer that is not supported by your touchscreen you will end up with problems. Otherwise your touchscreen would show (part) of the screen. My touchscreen scales it back to resolution it can handle (with loosing sharpness which is not noticable because the screen is only 7") My advantage is that the screen's aspect ratio is the same as my TV (16:9) so a perfect circle is still a perfect circle when scaled back.
Clone mode using two video cards makes no sense: extra video card does not add functionality or speed. Clone mode can be achieved by either splitting your VGA cable (is actually not clone mode but the result is the same) or if your video card has two VGA or a VGA and a DVI output using both outputs to display contents on two screen -> in the driver of your video card you can then tell it to output the same contents (= clone).
Media portal can differentiate between two screens, but it cannot use two screen at the same time with different content or resolution.

IDEA: I know in the past that Meedio had something like that: 1 screen for output (video / tv etc.), the other for your menus. What they did was actually make a skin that was two screens wide (one side with the 'contents' one side with the menus. When you attach then two screens to your PC (one being the projector and the other your touchscreen) and you configure your desktop to expand over these two screens then you would have MP expand over these two screen. Same as some games do: one screen for 'walking around' the other showing al sorts of controlls etc.

I'm not sure if this is actually possible within MP or that you hit some limitations of the application not supporting these kind of desktop features (if not, this is a 'must' have for MP2 because this would open up a whole lot af fancy possibilities!).

Any skinner out there that can share some thoughts?

Hope this helps... it all sounds very logical to me, but when I read it back i hope you have a very vivid imagination LOL

regards,
Ruud.