Planning improvements for analog cards

misterd · 2008-01-07, 23:24

Hi all,
inspired by the feedback of some users and the discussion in this thread (http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/pa...s-t33290.html), I started the planning phase for some additional changes in the graph building algorithm of analog cards in TvServer.

Here is my list of goals that I want to achieve. This list isn't complete and final. This means that some goals could be removed during the planning phase:

Primary goals:
1.) Improve the startup time of analog tv. This will be achieved by using the DB, where the working graph will be stored.
2.) Add support for all-in-one software encoder filters like the one from Hauppauge.
3.) Possibility to use different software multiplexers.
4.) Support more cards. Therefor the the trial-and-error algorithm of the graph building has to be improved. I think that something like a backtracking algorithm will be used.
5.) Optimize the graph for the different types of analog cards.
6.) Simplify the code

Secondary goals:
1.) Assign a specific software encoder / multiplexer to a card.
2.) User can affect the graph building process through SetupTv. This will give the user the ability to support additional cards that can't be detected by the trial-and-error algorithm.

Why I'm starting this thread already the planning phase?
I need user input to fulfill primary goal number 4. I need to know which cards aren't currently supported by the TvServer. It would help a lot if you can give me as much details as possible:
- What is the problem?
- Logs from TvServer
- Is it working in MP 0.2.3? When it is working: What is the name of the device in MP? What is the DevId?
- Picture of a working graph from GraphEdit
etc. etc.

If you have some other ideas how the graph building could be improved share your thoughts here.
Any help is really appreciated, especially testers.

I will inform you about my progress here in the thread.

Regards,
MisterD

chemelli · 2008-01-07, 23:32

Hi misterd,

you know that when you have any code ready, I can be your tester ;-)

Simone

Bagal · 2008-01-08, 13:57

With secondary goal number 2, do you think this would be able to support webcams? i.e. if I can build a graph for the webcam, will mediaportal be able to use it?

The reason I ask is that I've been trying out SageTV, someone wrote a network encoder for sage that enables you to create a tuner from any graph you can create in graphedit. I've used this to setup my 2 webcams as additional tuners, each with only 1 channel obviously, but it enables me to view these like any other channel from any client.
See http://www.nolberger.se/Sage/GraphRecorder/ for info.

Spragleknas · 2008-01-08, 14:05

Good to hear that analogue cards are not forgotten.

IMO improving PQ is the most important improvment needed. This coukd be:
- Selecting bitrate
- Options that influence PQ for popular cards (registry settings etc.)

Anyway:

for putting analogue cards back on the "map".

hassegubben · 2008-01-08, 14:55

Great news! Picture quality (high bitrates) is highly wanted! I run a Hauppauge PVRUSB2 and I really would like to have the high picture quality Hauppauge TV-application can give me, but from MP! I know Diehard is doing some work to improve the quality, but there seem to be issues with high bitrates.

THDBASED · 2008-01-08, 15:01

Thx a lot for working on this. Users from Belgium will definitely be very grateful for the work you have put into this!

mba · 2008-01-08, 17:59

That sounds really nice MisterD,
I'm a 150mce user myself, and I would also like faster startup time, better PQ and I second that idea Bagal suggested.
If you need some testing let me know.

Kind regards
Martin

misterd · 2008-01-08, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemelli

Hi misterd,

you know that when you have any code ready, I can be your tester ;-)

Simone

I haven't expected anything else

But nice to hear that you're helping again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagal

With secondary goal number 2, do you think this would be able to support webcams? i.e. if I can build a graph for the webcam, will mediaportal be able to use it?

The reason I ask is that I've been trying out SageTV, someone wrote a network encoder for sage that enables you to create a tuner from any graph you can create in graphedit. I've used this to setup my 2 webcams as additional tuners, each with only 1 channel obviously, but it enables me to view these like any other channel from any client.
See http://www.nolberger.se/Sage/GraphRecorder/ for info.

I don't think that this will be possible, but I'm not really sure.
I will describe my plans for this goal a little bit more in detail. Some analog cards have for example multiple capture devices or bad drivers that give wrong informations. My plan is that the user can in this case select the right capture devices, pin etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spragleknas

Good to hear that analogue cards are not forgotten.

IMO improving PQ is the most important improvment needed. This coukd be:
- Selecting bitrate
- Options that influence PQ for popular cards (registry settings etc.)

Anyway:

for putting analogue cards back on the "map".

I have thought about these two things already, but I have no idea atm who I could implement this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mba

That sounds really nice MisterD,
I'm a 150mce user myself, and I would also like faster startup time, better PQ and I second that idea Bagal suggested.
If you need some testing let me know.

Kind regards
Martin

Thanks for your help. I will let you know when I have something to test for you.

MisterD

dman_lfc · 2008-01-24, 18:55

misterd,

For PQ the DirectShow ICodecAPI COM interface can be used for encoder / multiplexer filters whether it be hardware or software. This is used if they're MCE compatible (of which most are these days).
I suggest you work with diehard2 who is looking at this.
The implementation information is in AXExtend.cs of DirectShowLib.

If the encoder does not support this interface call then you can work on other proprietary interfaces. i.e. older Hauppauge PVR cards.

DMAN

misterd · 2008-01-24, 20:58

Thanks for this information. This could be very helpful for integrating this feature.
My main problem is that I'm trying to find a good way of integrating this feature into TVE3. The main reason is that TVE3 has a server architecture and therefor we need a different form of integration.

I know that diehard2 is working on this and therefor try to work with him on this feature.

MisterD

2008-01-07, 23:24	#1 (permalink)
misterd Portal Developer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 27 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts Country:	Planning improvements for analog cards Hi all, inspired by the feedback of some users and the discussion in this thread (http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/pa...s-t33290.html), I started the planning phase for some additional changes in the graph building algorithm of analog cards in TvServer. Here is my list of goals that I want to achieve. This list isn't complete and final. This means that some goals could be removed during the planning phase: Primary goals: 1.) Improve the startup time of analog tv. This will be achieved by using the DB, where the working graph will be stored. 2.) Add support for all-in-one software encoder filters like the one from Hauppauge. 3.) Possibility to use different software multiplexers. 4.) Support more cards. Therefor the the trial-and-error algorithm of the graph building has to be improved. I think that something like a backtracking algorithm will be used. 5.) Optimize the graph for the different types of analog cards. 6.) Simplify the code Secondary goals: 1.) Assign a specific software encoder / multiplexer to a card. 2.) User can affect the graph building process through SetupTv. This will give the user the ability to support additional cards that can't be detected by the trial-and-error algorithm. Why I'm starting this thread already the planning phase? I need user input to fulfill primary goal number 4. I need to know which cards aren't currently supported by the TvServer. It would help a lot if you can give me as much details as possible: - What is the problem? - Logs from TvServer - Is it working in MP 0.2.3? When it is working: What is the name of the device in MP? What is the DevId? - Picture of a working graph from GraphEdit etc. etc. If you have some other ideas how the graph building could be improved share your thoughts here. Any help is really appreciated, especially testers. I will inform you about my progress here in the thread. Regards, MisterD

2008-01-08, 14:05	#4 (permalink)
Spragleknas Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rogaland Age: 32 Posts: 3,976 Thanks: 194 Thanked 106 Times in 86 Posts Country: My System	Good to hear that analogue cards are not forgotten. IMO improving PQ is the most important improvment needed. This coukd be: - Selecting bitrate - Options that influence PQ for popular cards (registry settings etc.) Anyway: for putting analogue cards back on the "map". __________________ Please read -> HOW TO START A SUPPORT THREAD !!! Support MediaPortal! Donate by clicking HERE Dedicated HTPC board (Norway) -> MSPC.no My Christmas skin 2008 (widescreen)

2008-01-08, 14:55	#5 (permalink)
hassegubben Portal Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Uppsala Age: 42 Posts: 70 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Country: My System	PQ Quality Great news! Picture quality (high bitrates) is highly wanted! I run a Hauppauge PVRUSB2 and I really would like to have the high picture quality Hauppauge TV-application can give me, but from MP! I know Diehard is doing some work to improve the quality, but there seem to be issues with high bitrates.

2008-01-24, 18:55	#9 (permalink)
dman_lfc Portal Manager Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 27 Times in 23 Posts Country: My System	misterd, For PQ the DirectShow ICodecAPI COM interface can be used for encoder / multiplexer filters whether it be hardware or software. This is used if they're MCE compatible (of which most are these days). I suggest you work with diehard2 who is looking at this. The implementation information is in AXExtend.cs of DirectShowLib. If the encoder does not support this interface call then you can work on other proprietary interfaces. i.e. older Hauppauge PVR cards. DMAN __________________ Hardware: Core2 Duo 3.0GHz, Nvidia 8500GS (256MB), 1GB DDR2, Intel DG33TL MB, 2x FireDTV DVB-S2 cards & Nova 500-T in a Antec Fusion case with VFD & iMon remote. Software: Windows XP MCE2005, PureVideo codecs & Cyberlink PowerDVD 7.x codecs.

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2008-01-07, 23:32	#2 (permalink)
chemelli Portal Developer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Italy - Padova Age: 34 Posts: 1,483 Thanks: 82 Thanked 83 Times in 63 Posts Country: My System	Hi misterd, you know that when you have any code ready, I can be your tester ;-) Simone

2008-01-08, 13:57	#3 (permalink)
Bagal MP Donator Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 30 Posts: 147 Thanks: 16 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts Country:	With secondary goal number 2, do you think this would be able to support webcams? i.e. if I can build a graph for the webcam, will mediaportal be able to use it? The reason I ask is that I've been trying out SageTV, someone wrote a network encoder for sage that enables you to create a tuner from any graph you can create in graphedit. I've used this to setup my 2 webcams as additional tuners, each with only 1 channel obviously, but it enables me to view these like any other channel from any client. See http://www.nolberger.se/Sage/GraphRecorder/ for info.

2008-01-08, 15:01	#6 (permalink)
THDBASED Portal Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 468 Thanks: 72 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Country: My System	Thx a lot for working on this. Users from Belgium will definitely be very grateful for the work you have put into this!

2008-01-08, 17:59	#7 (permalink)
mba Portal Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Aarhus Age: 32 Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Country:	That sounds really nice MisterD, I'm a 150mce user myself, and I would also like faster startup time, better PQ and I second that idea Bagal suggested. If you need some testing let me know. Kind regards Martin

2008-01-24, 20:58	#10 (permalink)
misterd Portal Developer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 27 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts Country:	Thanks for this information. This could be very helpful for integrating this feature. My main problem is that I'm trying to find a good way of integrating this feature into TVE3. The main reason is that TVE3 has a server architecture and therefor we need a different form of integration. I know that diehard2 is working on this and therefor try to work with him on this feature. MisterD