What is the problem with collecting EPG-data from the DVB-stream?

Moorhuhn · 2007-04-12, 15:36

Hello,

Iam trying around with the various possibilities to get EPG-data into MP resp. TVServer3 in my case since a couple of weeks now. Unfortunately I was not able to find a solution, which works fine for my needs. I would not want to discuss the reasons for that here, as Iam afraid that this will lead into a neverending thread.

The question Iam interested in is:
Why is it not possible to collect complete and reliable EPG-data from the DVB-stream? Or is it possible and just not implemented yet?

As far as I know in europe, at least in germany, this data is available. Every DVB-receiver provides this functionality, so I suppose there must be a reason why it is not properly implemented in MP/TVServer3. I know that we have the epg-grabber, but this one works a little bit weird as it only "sometimes" collects the data for all of the configured channels. Additiionally the epg-grabber doesnt update epg-data that is already in the database and sometimes it creates special characters in the program description.
So is this just a matter of bugfixing or are there other reasons (technical reasons, ressource problems) why the integrated epg-grabber only works at about 80% of its possibilities?

Regards,

Moorhuhn

KevinM · 2007-06-19, 23:01

I am also interested in hearing what the technical issues are.

In the UK cheap freeview STBs seem to be able to grab the full 7-Day EPG in about 5 minutes (apparently all from a single stream). One does wonder why this feature is so weak in MP

drunkmonkey0 · 2007-06-21, 22:24

Im UK.

my freeview box picks it up easy, my media center did take a while but it has got every single channel for 7 days from the data in the dvb stream.
Just give it time.

joostzilla · 2007-07-16, 19:01

I have the same problem here. My guide shows the correct programs for the right channels but loses the extra info (tv program info and content) after a restart.
strange...

Diggen · 2007-07-25, 08:12

At the moment I test TVxb with Tvmovie Ini and xmltv2 TVE3 Plugin. It seems to work good with additional DVB-EPG.
At the moment Fulldescription download is diabled for TVxb, but I have to test it this week.

sunflower · 2007-07-25, 09:39

I'm also very interested in combining different epg sources like the dvb-stream, tvmovie, web epg.
Who has tried this yet?

Diggen · 2007-07-25, 11:05

I have setup xmltv2 plugin to import the tvguide.xml from TVxb, without delete of previous EPG and turned on the DVB-Epg grabber for all Channels in my groups.
But longterm testings stand out.
Something like a Priority for EPG-Sources would be nice.

eg.
Priority 2 DVB-EPG
Priority 1 xmltv2

It should import DVB-EPG and when differs or is empty use xmltv as source.
Maybe a problem at Channels like MTV who have 00:00 - 23:59 MTV as Broadcast in DVB-Epg.

KevinM · 2007-08-02, 01:10

A bit more info.

In the UK, behaviour of DVB-T and DVB-S cards is completely different:-

The DVB-T cards (well my Pinnacle ones anyway), pull in a full 7 day EPG from a single channel. The whole process takes just under 14 minutes but grabs all data for 75 DVB-T channels. This is obviously the reason why people have recommended increasing the EPG timeout above the default 10 minutes for UK users.

Freeview Satellite channels typically only pull in about 4-17 channels per transponder and take about 1-3 minutes for each one. On my setup I have over 30 transponders in use. Unfortunately, Sky only broadcast the 'Now & Next' EPG on freeview satellite. This means that I can only just grab all the available EPG data in an hour and short programmes can result in gaps in the EPG.

Also, on my system, the DVB-S EPG grab for Film4+1 stalls so I have to disable that one otherwise the whole thing falls down.

It would appear that it is therefore beneficial to grab any satellite EPG data I can from the web and only enable DVB-S EPG grabbing for satellite channels that don't have a working web grabber.

A big improvement that could be made to MP would be to add a separate option for each card for the DVB EPG data for all channels on a transponder to be updated whenever switching to a channel on a new transponder.

pclare · 2007-08-24, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinM

The DVB-T cards (well my Pinnacle ones anyway), pull in a full 7 day EPG from a single channel. The whole process takes just under 14 minutes but grabs all data for 75 DVB-T channels. This is obviously the reason why people have recommended increasing the EPG timeout above the default 10 minutes for UK users.

I'm not sure why it should take anywhere near 14 minutes. In the UK, the entire EPG is broadcast on each MUX (as you say) with a repetition rate of around 280 seconds. So, it is possible to grab the entire EPG in under five minutes. If you want just the EPG for all services carried on the current transport stream then the repeat rate is even shorter.

The only reason I can think of why it should take longer is if the signal is poor leading to CRC errors in the EIT data packets.

I'm pretty new to MediaPortal so I don't know too much about the issues concerned with getting broadcast EPG data. But, for those having trouble with this it might be possible to make use of a broadcast EPG grabbing utility I wrote called DVBGuide. This was intended to solve a specific problem I had getting Guide data into Windows MCE. But since it outputs XMLTV format files it has other uses too.

More details and download of DVBGuide here:

http://www.geocities.com/pclareuk/DVBGuide/

KevinM · 2007-08-24, 18:38

Thanks Peter - good to see you checking in here.

It seems to be something to do with Sky; they seem to use their own proprietary 7 day EPG which is only available on an encrypted channel (or perhaps it's just that their EPG format is not publically available).

Normal EPG data is available but it's only 'now-and-next' and each frequency/symbol rate/FEC combination has to be read if they include one of the channels you want to include. Unfortunately there are often 9 channels you don't need accompanying the one you do on each combination.

My terrestrial DVB-T card has no problem grabbing the 7 Day EPG from a single mux so running this once a day would be quite sufficient.
The satellite DVB-S card EPG grab has to be run at least once an hour just to show the current and next program for the satellite channels.

I am toying with the idea of using your DVBguide to run automatically once a day to grab the DVB-T channel EPG data and setting MediaPortal to grab just the DVB-S ones more frequently. However, I've also requested separate update intervals for each card : http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/se...ds-t27037.html

2007-04-12, 15:36	#1 (permalink)
Moorhuhn Portal Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Country: My System	What is the problem with collecting EPG-data from the DVB-stream? Hello, Iam trying around with the various possibilities to get EPG-data into MP resp. TVServer3 in my case since a couple of weeks now. Unfortunately I was not able to find a solution, which works fine for my needs. I would not want to discuss the reasons for that here, as Iam afraid that this will lead into a neverending thread. The question Iam interested in is: Why is it not possible to collect complete and reliable EPG-data from the DVB-stream? Or is it possible and just not implemented yet? As far as I know in europe, at least in germany, this data is available. Every DVB-receiver provides this functionality, so I suppose there must be a reason why it is not properly implemented in MP/TVServer3. I know that we have the epg-grabber, but this one works a little bit weird as it only "sometimes" collects the data for all of the configured channels. Additiionally the epg-grabber doesnt update epg-data that is already in the database and sometimes it creates special characters in the program description. So is this just a matter of bugfixing or are there other reasons (technical reasons, ressource problems) why the integrated epg-grabber only works at about 80% of its possibilities? Regards, Moorhuhn Last edited by Moorhuhn; 2007-04-12 at 15:49.

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2007-06-19, 23:01	#2 (permalink)
KevinM Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 58 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Country: My System	I am also interested in hearing what the technical issues are. In the UK cheap freeview STBs seem to be able to grab the full 7-Day EPG in about 5 minutes (apparently all from a single stream). One does wonder why this feature is so weak in MP

2007-06-21, 22:24	#3 (permalink)
drunkmonkey0 Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 23 Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Country:	Im UK. my freeview box picks it up easy, my media center did take a while but it has got every single channel for 7 days from the data in the dvb stream. Just give it time.

2007-07-16, 19:01	#4 (permalink)
joostzilla Portal Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Drunen Age: 37 Posts: 65 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Country: My System	I have the same problem here. My guide shows the correct programs for the right channels but loses the extra info (tv program info and content) after a restart. strange...

2007-07-25, 08:12	#5 (permalink)
Diggen Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 41 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Country: My System	At the moment I test TVxb with Tvmovie Ini and xmltv2 TVE3 Plugin. It seems to work good with additional DVB-EPG. At the moment Fulldescription download is diabled for TVxb, but I have to test it this week.

2007-07-25, 09:39	#6 (permalink)
sunflower Portal Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cologne Age: 46 Posts: 80 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Country: My System	I'm also very interested in combining different epg sources like the dvb-stream, tvmovie, web epg. Who has tried this yet?

2007-07-25, 11:05	#7 (permalink)
Diggen Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 41 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Country: My System	I have setup xmltv2 plugin to import the tvguide.xml from TVxb, without delete of previous EPG and turned on the DVB-Epg grabber for all Channels in my groups. But longterm testings stand out. Something like a Priority for EPG-Sources would be nice. eg. Priority 2 DVB-EPG Priority 1 xmltv2 It should import DVB-EPG and when differs or is empty use xmltv as source. Maybe a problem at Channels like MTV who have 00:00 - 23:59 MTV as Broadcast in DVB-Epg.

2007-08-02, 01:10	#8 (permalink)
KevinM Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 58 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Country: My System	A bit more info. In the UK, behaviour of DVB-T and DVB-S cards is completely different:- The DVB-T cards (well my Pinnacle ones anyway), pull in a full 7 day EPG from a single channel. The whole process takes just under 14 minutes but grabs all data for 75 DVB-T channels. This is obviously the reason why people have recommended increasing the EPG timeout above the default 10 minutes for UK users. Freeview Satellite channels typically only pull in about 4-17 channels per transponder and take about 1-3 minutes for each one. On my setup I have over 30 transponders in use. Unfortunately, Sky only broadcast the 'Now & Next' EPG on freeview satellite. This means that I can only just grab all the available EPG data in an hour and short programmes can result in gaps in the EPG. Also, on my system, the DVB-S EPG grab for Film4+1 stalls so I have to disable that one otherwise the whole thing falls down. It would appear that it is therefore beneficial to grab any satellite EPG data I can from the web and only enable DVB-S EPG grabbing for satellite channels that don't have a working web grabber. A big improvement that could be made to MP would be to add a separate option for each card for the DVB EPG data for all channels on a transponder to be updated whenever switching to a channel on a new transponder.

2007-08-24, 18:38	#10 (permalink)
KevinM Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 58 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Country: My System	Thanks Peter - good to see you checking in here. It seems to be something to do with Sky; they seem to use their own proprietary 7 day EPG which is only available on an encrypted channel (or perhaps it's just that their EPG format is not publically available). Normal EPG data is available but it's only 'now-and-next' and each frequency/symbol rate/FEC combination has to be read if they include one of the channels you want to include. Unfortunately there are often 9 channels you don't need accompanying the one you do on each combination. My terrestrial DVB-T card has no problem grabbing the 7 Day EPG from a single mux so running this once a day would be quite sufficient. The satellite DVB-S card EPG grab has to be run at least once an hour just to show the current and next program for the satellite channels. I am toying with the idea of using your DVBguide to run automatically once a day to grab the DVB-T channel EPG data and setting MediaPortal to grab just the DVB-S ones more frequently. However, I've also requested separate update intervals for each card : http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/se...ds-t27037.html