Upgrade to support HDTV, HDDVD & Blu-Ray

[Gamester17]

Originally Posted by dman_lfc

What GPU's in the MacMini? I heard they were getting a decoding on the motherboard...

Currently, the latest Mac mini features a Intel GMA 950 GPU (integrated-graphics-chipset) and that only support MPEG-2 decoding in hardware
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_mini
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA

The next generation Mac mini roumored to come out in October this year is speculated to use the latest Intel Centrino chipset (code-name: Santa Rosa) but use a discrete GPU (probably from NVIDIA since Apple now primary use Intel and Intel and Apple has recently entered into a close collaberation, ...if a NVIDIA GPU is choosen then the it will support NVIDIA PureVideo Technology which features hardware decoding of H.264 and VC-1 / WMV3, as well as MPEG-2 of course).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrin...orm_.282007.29

[Weezul]

Reading some earlier posts regarding the Creative DXR cards, I am reminded of the Cinemaster and Creative (Luxsonor) dvd decoder cards in my pc spare parts drawers that are sitting because drivers for the 2k/XP environment were never finished or even made... They had full dvd decoding on board and could play full dolby surround on a pentium 200 box without breaking a sweat!

I've been yearning for someone to put out a full-on fully programmable decoder board that would at least be usable as a "hardware filter" that simply offloads the entire decoding process and feeds that back across the bus to the Overlay ready for display, like the old DXR, Cinemaster, Luxsonor and Hollywood cards did in the old days. What this means is you could have a future-proof solution that could be simply upgraded by a firmware and/or driver/codec update when new technology comes along.

Why someone hasn't already done this is beyond me. It's sheer laziness to rely on the graphics cards out there when we obviously have *not* been delivered the technology we've been promised (yeah, like I trust hardware decoding on ati/nvidia cards, it's hardware *assisted* in most cases for most people, not full hardware decoding). Plus the programmers have to write for the interfaces for *every* different card out there to implement their hardware decoding, when someone could have a card that provides a standard api that every codec writer could look for and simply offshoot their data to for processing.

Where I see this as a plus is more for the Client side playback using small, energy efficient, and *quiet* boxes for connection to a decent display, leaving the big noisy server to be placed in a closet or basement where it can be hidden away.

I for one would like to know the specifics on this solution, namely the path the video takes (is it a board that requires a "pass-thru" of some sort like the old Hollywood cards?), does it decode and then hand off to the overlay, allowing you to use your existing (and possibly sub par) video card, like those onboard a mini-itx (chrome graphics sux... ugh)? Or would you "loop" your current video through this which provides some sort of HDMI output (using a hdmi to dvi adapter would be easy, as well as a "breakout" for component video) that would scale your desktop to a standard HD resolution or possibly even upconvert and make it Progressive scan in the case of interlaced content??

I think the greatest strength of a board like I mention is that it would have to have a direct directshow decoder (and maybe even encoder?) driver(s) available that hooks directly to the hardware, so that the main function of the computer itself is simply ferrying the data to the card, letting the card do the grunt work, and then the card *outputs* the data in some manner that goes to the existing overlay, and *not* use a jumper cable like the afore mentioned legacy cards. What would be nice is for someone to implement that solution in a chip that could be directly integrated to a motherboard.

Hell, I'm surprised that someone like TI hasn't put out something like this already, they're one of the best at providing chips that are fully programmable for things like what we're discussing.

Remember the old modem/sound cards that had that kind of equivalent, where upgrading to a faster modem speed or sound card feature improvements was nothing more than a flash/driver/software update?

[dman_lfc]

Originally Posted by pStar

hi there
just stumbled over a press release from broadcom. they're planning to release a pci-e card chip which should cost around $40...so a card will end at $100 maybe

http://www.broadcom.com/press/releas...20&source=home

regards

Thanks for the link I will check it out
I doubt the board will come through at $100 though I think thats more likely if the manufacturing quantities are in the 10's of thousands.
It also strenghtens the HTPC requirement position that we have been discussing and some would look to for a solution.

DMAN

[Oculus]

I'm considering the ATI 24xx HD, with VC-1 and H.264 hardware decoding for my HTPC hi-def upgrade.

Low power consumption and about 20% CPU usage on a 1.8GHz Sempron looks promising, and of course, the most important thing is that Sapphire has announced AGP version of the card.

My HTPC is build on a nForce2 mobo, so a PCIe solution would require quite an upgrade.

A PCI hardware solution would be of interest as well but I'd have to compare the power consumption of my current graphics card + the PCI solution vs. the 15-25W of the ATI 24xx HD card.

[igalan]

At this point I'm not ready to go to HD for one main reason: CRT TV. But even if I get an HD TV, my HTPC won't be able to handle HD video; it has a single PCI slot used by the dual DVB-T tuner (plus AGP, it's a small Shuttle). If someone releases an AGP video card that can off-load decoding of HD video, but I don't think this is going to happen.

Considering this I would need a new HTPC. And then I would choose the best silent videocard available (no fans), which may not be enought for HD. So a PCIe card would make sense in this case.

BTW, I don't think I'm going to buy Bluray or HD-DVD, at least not until they allow the same level of flexibility than regular DVDs (rip easily, so I can store the movies on hard drive and store the discs safely).

[dman_lfc]

Originally Posted by igalan

At this point I'm not ready to go to HD for one main reason: CRT TV. But even if I get an HD TV, my HTPC won't be able to handle HD video; it has a single PCI slot used by the dual DVB-T tuner (plus AGP, it's a small Shuttle). If someone releases an AGP video card that can off-load decoding of HD video, but I don't think this is going to happen.

Considering this I would need a new HTPC. And then I would choose the best silent videocard available (no fans), which may not be enought for HD. So a PCIe card would make sense in this case.

BTW, I don't think I'm going to buy Bluray or HD-DVD, at least not until they allow the same level of flexibility than regular DVDs (rip easily, so I can store the movies on hard drive and store the discs safely).

Google the HD-2400 from ATI (AMD) which is released in July. That may work for you. As stated in an earlier post Sapphire have committed to an AGP version of this card.

DMAN

[dman_lfc]

Originally Posted by Weezul

I've been yearning for someone to put out a full-on fully programmable decoder board that would at least be usable as a "hardware filter" that simply offloads the entire decoding process and feeds that back across the bus to the Overlay ready for display, like the old DXR, Cinemaster, Luxsonor and Hollywood cards did in the old days. What this means is you could have a future-proof solution that could be simply upgraded by a firmware and/or driver/codec update when new technology comes along.

I like your thinking about being fully programmeable however that would take a large amount of software development time. The solution I'm looking at should be firmware upgradeable to support future FOURCC container formats where possible.

Originally Posted by Weezul

Why someone hasn't already done this is beyond me. It's sheer laziness to rely on the graphics cards out there when we obviously have *not* been delivered the technology we've been promised (yeah, like I trust hardware decoding on ati/nvidia cards, it's hardware *assisted* in most cases for most people, not full hardware decoding). Plus the programmers have to write for the interfaces for *every* different card out there to implement their hardware decoding, when someone could have a card that provides a standard api that every codec writer could look for and simply offshoot their data to for processing.

Yeap thats why we're going to use a DirectShow filter.

Originally Posted by Weezul

Where I see this as a plus is more for the Client side playback using small, energy efficient, and *quiet* boxes for connection to a decent display, leaving the big noisy server to be placed in a closet or basement where it can be hidden away.

Yup you got it, especially nice little TVServer client machines . Also those who don't want to spend mega bucks on potential HTPC upgrades.

Originally Posted by Weezul

I for one would like to know the specifics on this solution, namely the path the video takes (is it a board that requires a "pass-thru" of some sort like the old Hollywood cards?), does it decode and then hand off to the overlay, allowing you to use your existing (and possibly sub par) video card, like those onboard a mini-itx (chrome graphics sux... ugh)? Or would you "loop" your current video through this which provides some sort of HDMI output (using a hdmi to dvi adapter would be easy, as well as a "breakout" for component video) that would scale your desktop to a standard HD resolution or possibly even upconvert and make it Progressive scan in the case of interlaced content??

I'm looking at two versions for each interface. A lite version without HDMI thus using you existing graphics solutions and a pro version which has HDCP compliant HDMI output to 1080p which can also be turned off if need be.

Originally Posted by Weezul

I think the greatest strength of a board like I mention is that it would have to have a direct directshow decoder (and maybe even encoder?) driver(s) available that hooks directly to the hardware, so that the main function of the computer itself is simply ferrying the data to the card, letting the card do the grunt work, and then the card *outputs* the data in some manner that goes to the existing overlay, and *not* use a jumper cable like the afore mentioned legacy cards. What would be nice is for someone to implement that solution in a chip that could be directly integrated to a motherboard.

Yup see the earlier reply about using DirectShow filters so application compatibility is as broad as possible. Data transfers across the PCIe / PCI bus.

DMAN.

[igalan]

If ATI releases something like this, I would get one, no doubt (AGP, yummy!). Mi Radeon 9600 is aging, but does the job that I need it to do well. The question is, will something like this be supported by Media Portal? I guess it requires a special codec that handles hardware acceleration. We'll see.

[tom1502]

the mini has got a intel GMA950 GPU, so no hw-decoding
tom

[barnonline]

Crap! oh well I was just about to upgrade my processor to a A64 x2 4200+ anyway...