Best picture quality in Vista with Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H

[kszabo]

I am optimizing my picture quality for 1 year now, but I am satisfied now (HTPC beats my normal sat receiver with ease):

- Motherboard 780g/HD3200, with the smallest Phenom X3 8450 (X2 was a problem for 1080i)
- Vista 32bit
- mpg2 and h.264 codec Cyberlink PDVD 7.3 (latest patch), with DXVA activated
- Catalyst 8.9 (everything set to default, but you can play with denoise, deinterlacing etc)
- added Catalyst registry tweak for constant colour space for SD and HD (without black level/contrast problem with SD)
- EVR as renderer
- Vistas Aero activated

greetings

ps: Phenom X3 8450 costs ca. 90 €, I downvolted it (1,1 V instead 1,25), downclocked to 1,8 GHz. Temp under 40 °C passively cooled :-) I am sure I have TPD <60 Watts. And the CPU practically never runs 100%, with 1080i 0-10% (guess <20 Watt). I guess the only argument for Phenom is 1080i, everything else works fine with X2 or Sempron.

[doornjoostje]

Originally Posted by kszabo

- mpg2 and h.264 codec Cyberlink PDVD 7.3 (latest patch), with DXVA activated

If I use the PowerDVD 8.x mpeg2 codec, I only get 25 frames/sec, so use the windows vista one.

Originally Posted by kszabo

ps: Phenom X3 8450 costs ca. 90 €, I downvolted it (1,1 V instead 1,25), downclocked to 1,8 GHz. Temp under 40 °C passively cooled :-) I am sure I have TPD <60 Watts. And the CPU practically never runs 100%, with 1080i 0-10% (guess <20 Watt)

TPD is 95W for AMD Phenom X3 8450.
Going to wait for a 45w version too, if that has 10% CPU usage its 4.5 Watt I asume.

[kszabo]

Originally Posted by doornjoostje

If I use the PowerDVD 8.x mpeg2 codec, I only get 25 frames/sec, so use the windows vista one.

TPD is 95W for AMD Phenom X3 8450.
Going to wait for a 45w version too, if that has 10% CPU usage its 4.5 Watt I asume.

1. 25 fps is normal for deinterlaced PAL material (it has 50 half frames). The fps depends on deinterlacing method: the very primitive "bob" makes 50 from it, good deinterlacer 25 fps. This is not a quality marker.

2. the Phenom X3 8450, if undervolted has much less than 95 Watt TPD. First because you have 1 core less active (same X4 2,1 GHz, same architecture has also 95 W rating). Second you have ca. 12% less voltage (1,1 instead 1,25). The new X3 9100e with 65 Watt TPD has the same architecture and production technology, only downvolted to 1,1 V Vcore.

I am sorry that I cannot measure my TPD for you. But if you preefer, wait for the next generation of AMDs, with 45 nm production.

45W TPD and 10% usage does not mean 4,5 Watt because of the integrated RAM controller. The relation is not linear.

EDIT:
here is a test: http://www.pcwelt.de/start/computer/...black_edition/
a test platform with a X4 9100e (TPD 65W) has the same maximal total energy consumption as with X3 8450 (203 Watts total). So a X3 8450 is rather a 65W CPA than a 90W. And if I undervolt it...

[doornjoostje]

Originally Posted by kszabo

1. 25 fps is normal for deinterlaced PAL material (it has 50 half frames). The fps depends on deinterlacing method: the very primitive "bob" makes 50 from it, good deinterlacer 25 fps. This is not a quality marker.

But with 50 frames it is a nicer picture.
Which deinterlace method do you use?

Originally Posted by kszabo

2. the Phenom X3 8450, if undervolted has much less than 95 Watt TPD. First because you have 1 core less active (same X4 2,1 GHz, same architecture has also 95 W rating). Second you have ca. 12% less voltage (1,1 instead 1,25). The new X3 9100e with 65 Watt TPD has the same architecture and production technology, only downvolted to 1,1 V Vcore.

I am sorry that I cannot measure my TPD for you. But if you preefer, wait for the next generation of AMDs, with 45 nm production.

45W TPD and 10% usage does not mean 4,5 Watt because of the integrated RAM controller. The relation is not linear.

Thanks for a the explaining.

--------------------------------------
Update: Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD8) together with deinterlace "best" gives the best picture.
Also 50 frames a second (with this decoder it is also 50 frames/sec).

Thanks again!

[doornjoostje]

Did you also started with a x2 (without ht 3.0) processor?
Did it make a large difference?
Did you see any difference for SD tv?

Thanks in advance!

[kszabo]

Originally Posted by doornjoostje

Did you also started with a x2 (without ht 3.0) processor?
Did it make a large difference?
Did you see any difference for SD tv?

yes, started with an X2 BE-2400 (45 W TPD, 2x2300 MHz). I was satisfied, only 1080i HDTV was not so as it should have been. For SDTV or progressive HD (720p, 1080p) I see no difference. With Phenom 1080i looks very nice, fluid and natural.

If you use pdvd codec with MP, activate hardware acceleration in MP Configuration. The deinterlacing method will be set then through CatalystControlCenter (under Avivo settings): auto oder manual (weave, bob, adaptive, motion adaptive, vector adaptive). I use it "auto" but still testing

Edit:
check this out: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...on,1918-5.html

The smallest Phenom X3 8450 has 22,2 Watt idle and 74,5 Watt peak consumption. It is about as fast as a X2 6000+ (125W TPD!). X2s with less consumption are significant slower than a X3 Phenom. So if someone wants a energy saving CPU, should forget X2 (K8 architecture) and buy a Phenom, and downclock / downvolt to your needs.

The only downside is the 10 Watt more idle consumption.

[flokel]

Originally Posted by kszabo

Edit:
check this out: Thermal Design Power: Phenom X3 only XX Watts - Tom's Hardware : New AMD Phenom X3 Vs. Phenom X4

The smallest Phenom X3 8450 has 22,2 Watt idle and 74,5 Watt peak consumption. It is about as fast as a X2 6000+ (125W TPD!). X2s with less consumption are significant slower than a X3 Phenom. So if someone wants a energy saving CPU, should forget X2 (K8 architecture) and buy a Phenom, and downclock / downvolt to your needs.

The only downside is the 10 Watt more idle consumption.

Concerning the power measurements this is an obsolete comparsion
as X2 Cpu's were using the older 90nm Windsor stepping.
Today you can get a faster 65nm X2 6000 (now 3,1Ghz) with lower TDP (89W).

[doornjoostje]

Originally Posted by kszabo

yes, started with an X2 BE-2400 (45 W TPD, 2x2300 MHz). I was satisfied, only 1080i HDTV was not so as it should have been. For SDTV or progressive HD (720p, 1080p) I see no difference. With Phenom 1080i looks very nice, fluid and natural.

I use 99% of the time SD TV. If this make no difference, I don't buy the new processor.

Originally Posted by kszabo

If you use pdvd codec with MP, activate hardware acceleration in MP Configuration. The deinterlacing method will be set then through CatalystControlCenter (under Avivo settings): auto oder manual (weave, bob, adaptive, motion adaptive, vector adaptive). I use it "auto" but still testing

Going to try that, thanks!

Originally Posted by kszabo

Edit:
check this out: Thermal Design Power: Phenom X3 only XX Watts - Tom's Hardware : New AMD Phenom X3 Vs. Phenom X4

The smallest Phenom X3 8450 has 22,2 Watt idle and 74,5 Watt peak consumption. It is about as fast as a X2 6000+ (125W TPD!). X2s with less consumption are significant slower than a X3 Phenom. So if someone wants a energy saving CPU, should forget X2 (K8 architecture) and buy a Phenom, and downclock / downvolt to your needs.

The only downside is the 10 Watt more idle consumption.

22,2 Wat idle is a lot, I think. But when downvolted its less.

[doornjoostje]

Is SD TV 576i or 576p?
Or can it be both?
How to check?

Because if 576i, then I am going to buy a new ht 3.0 processor, because my picture will be better right?
I've read that the SD TV in the Netherlands is 576i, so it would be wise buying the processor.

[kszabo]

Originally Posted by doornjoostje

Because if 576i, then I am going to buy a new ht 3.0 processor, because my picture will be better right?
I've read that the SD TV in the Netherlands is 576i, so it would be wise buying the processor.

as far as I know and tried myself HT 2.0 is enough for good SD deinterlacing. You need HT 3.0 only for HD (only for 1080i). I doubt that a Phenom would bring better SD quality.

For SD I wouldn´t buy a Phenom. If you can, you should wait for the new generation of AMDs. Maybe there will be a cheap mainstream X2 with HT3.0, with 45 nm production with lowest energy consumption.

My experience is that the best picture quality can be achieved with hardware acceleration. It is miles better than the best software based decoding (tried ATi mpg2 and Cyberlink without HWAcc against Cyberlink+HWacc; ATi HD3200).