Which renderer for Judderfree playback

alanwww1 · 2008-02-18, 09:52

I use Mediaportal long ago and sometimes i realize framedrops when playing different video content.
I belive it is caused by the different video framerates and video vard framerates.

My AVI and MKV files mostly encoded in 25fps some of them in 30fps. I read that movies are shot in 24fps. How come they are encoded in 25 and 30fps.

Which video frequency should i use ? My LCD supports 24i 25i 30i 50p 60p.

Which renderer gives the best result ? I had some judder and tearing with WMR9, specially with 1080p content.

Is AVIVO or Purevideo helps this ? What about hardware accelerated decoding. Which renderer does it use ?

Anyone got judderfree playback with all type of content ?

Taipan · 2008-02-18, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwww1

Anyone got judderfree playback with all type of content ?

Yes, but only by changing the refresh rate of the video card/video display to match the video type. Ideally, you need to play 24fps material at 48Hz or 72Hz, PAL at 50Hz and NTSC at 60Hz.

I do this from my remote control using macros that launch Powerstrip with pre-defined command-line parameters. Ideally, this should be done by MediaPortal automatically when it first detects the video type - however, I have never been able to get that to work reliably.

alanwww1 · 2008-02-18, 11:37

Thank you for the info Taipan.

That is too bad. Is'n there a solution to "pulldown" different fps material to the native screen resolution ?

Isn't Avivo or Purevideo supposed to do this ? For example if i have a 50hz refresh rate the video processor should do (with a little picture quality decrease) the pull down transformation. How can this be used ? Only with hardware acceleration enabled players or codecs ?

gibman · 2008-02-18, 12:19

First off, use "exclusive mode" vmr9 mode.

If u cant set your display device to that of the source video contents (or a multitply of it), then use the one that is closest.

Ex.
my display is set at 50hz

Using avi mostly @ 23.976 fps , some 25 fps.
live TV is dvb pal @ 25 fps.
future blueray etc. @ 24 fps.

So my only concern is the 23.976 and 24 fps framerates - they are not a multiple of 50hz. But they are pretty close (48hz).

This is where reclock filter comes in handy.
ReClock DirectShow Filter
http://reclock.free.fr/ReClock.test.1.7b4.zip

It gives me judder-free video on 23.976 material being displayed on a 50hz display- I havent checked blueray yet. But I expect the same here.
25 fps stuff is not using reclock in my case, since this is of no use.

Reclock is normally not recommended for MP. But as long as u use it for myvideos I myself atleast are having no issues.

for live TV matters may be different.

/gibman

RXP · 2008-02-18, 13:45

EVR also helps eliminate judder

alanwww1 · 2008-02-18, 13:58

Thanks for everyone for the useful info.

I already used VMR9 exclusive mode, but that just helped about tearing, but not juddering.
Is this Reclock utility really a sound codec, or it is a video codec. How can this make let's say a 24fps
content adjusted to 30hz. Speed up, or some other method ? What happens to the sound in this case ?

I tried EVR on XP, but all i got is black screen. I don't want to use Vista at all.

Any idea how to use EVR on XP ?

bolders · 2008-02-25, 21:34

I have always been plauged by jumpy video playback from my HTPC (normally during slow panning over landscapes - fast motion seems fine). I am begining to wonder if truly smooth playback of video is possible and begining to think that my desire for a PC based system to play back video will never be realised in the way I want. I really dont want to switch to a standalone DVD player but at the moment it gives better resuls

.

I have recently tried changing refresh rates as outlined by Taipan with encouraging results however AVI files which are at 23.976Hz still have some jitter.

This is where I believe Reclock may solve my problems however I can not get it to work in media portal. If I try to play a video reclock will display an error window saying

"your video board is not compatible with reclock (insufficent or bad driver support)"

However if I play a video in media player it functions Ok.
I have this problem with my HTPC (AMD 2500 XP with a geforce 6200), My main PC (Althon 64 3800 X2 with Geforce 7800GT) and my laptop which is running intel graphics. All systems display the same error and all are running Media Portal 0.2.3 with SVN 17258 Im also running TV3 on my HTPC which is also rev 17258.

So my first questions are to gibman. What version of reclock are you using. What hardware are you running (i.e. CPU and GFX card) and what version of media portal are you using.

My next questions are to Taipan. Do you change refresh while you are running Media Portal and does it cause any problems with Media Portal crashing etc.

Thanks in advance for any replies. I am really hoping to finally get my video playback smooth

robyf · 2008-02-25, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibman

First off, use "exclusive mode" vmr9 mode.

This is where reclock filter comes in handy.
ReClock DirectShow Filter
http://reclock.free.fr/ReClock.test.1.7b4.zip

It gives me judder-free video on 23.976 material being displayed on a 50hz display- I havent checked blueray yet. But I expect the same here.
25 fps stuff is not using reclock in my case, since this is of no use.

Reclock is normally not recommended for MP. But as long as u use it for myvideos I myself atleast are having no issues.

for live TV matters may be different.

/gibman

I've also tried reclock, the problem is I can not use exclusive mode if I use it or I get an error from reclock. Is this normal or is something that has to do with my configuration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolders

"your video board is not compatible with reclock (insufficent or bad driver support)"

Try to disable VMR9 exclusive mode...

Taipan · 2008-02-26, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolders

My next questions are to Taipan. Do you change refresh while you are running Media Portal and does it cause any problems with Media Portal crashing etc.

Yes, I can change the refresh rate at anytime while MediaPortal is running and there are no undesirable consequences. The refresh rate change occurs in the video card, so it is transparent to MediaPortal and therefore should not bother MediaPortal at all ...

bolders · 2008-02-26, 00:35

Thanks Taipan - I will have to play with that when i get some time.

robyf - thanks for the suggestion. disabling exclusive mode has cured the error and initial results look very promising

. It would seem that as you have suggested, Reclock can not run when exclusive mode is enabled. I am getting a small amount of tearing but my video playback has never been better. My first tests indicate that I am close to video nirvana (Peace at Last)

Thanks again all ur comments have been really helpfull

bolders

2008-02-18, 09:52	#1 (permalink)
alanwww1 Portal Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Country:	Which renderer for Judderfree playback I use Mediaportal long ago and sometimes i realize framedrops when playing different video content. I belive it is caused by the different video framerates and video vard framerates. My AVI and MKV files mostly encoded in 25fps some of them in 30fps. I read that movies are shot in 24fps. How come they are encoded in 25 and 30fps. Which video frequency should i use ? My LCD supports 24i 25i 30i 50p 60p. Which renderer gives the best result ? I had some judder and tearing with WMR9, specially with 1080p content. Is AVIVO or Purevideo helps this ? What about hardware accelerated decoding. Which renderer does it use ? Anyone got judderfree playback with all type of content ?

2008-02-18, 12:19	#4 (permalink)
gibman Portal Developer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Aarhus Posts: 733 Thanks: 4 Thanked 68 Times in 51 Posts Country: My System	First off, use "exclusive mode" vmr9 mode. If u cant set your display device to that of the source video contents (or a multitply of it), then use the one that is closest. Ex. my display is set at 50hz Using avi mostly @ 23.976 fps , some 25 fps. live TV is dvb pal @ 25 fps. future blueray etc. @ 24 fps. So my only concern is the 23.976 and 24 fps framerates - they are not a multiple of 50hz. But they are pretty close (48hz). This is where reclock filter comes in handy. ReClock DirectShow Filter http://reclock.free.fr/ReClock.test.1.7b4.zip It gives me judder-free video on 23.976 material being displayed on a 50hz display- I havent checked blueray yet. But I expect the same here. 25 fps stuff is not using reclock in my case, since this is of no use. Reclock is normally not recommended for MP. But as long as u use it for myvideos I myself atleast are having no issues. for live TV matters may be different. /gibman __________________ "It's all a big foodchain. We eat shit and shit eats us." Last edited by gibman; 2008-02-18 at 12:31.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Best strategy to integrate a custom renderer?	ar-jar	General Development (no feature request here!)	2	2007-08-18 23:41
MP not using correct audio renderer	flexi	Codecs, External Players	9	2007-04-06 13:47
Is it possible to change video renderer ?	richardh	General Support	4	2006-11-26 23:55
Global audio renderer option	mmesh	Improvement Suggestions	0	2006-09-02 23:48
General audio renderer selection	mmesh	Improvement Suggestions	0	2005-02-14 15:45

2008-02-18, 11:37	#3 (permalink)
alanwww1 Portal Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Country:	Thank you for the info Taipan. That is too bad. Is'n there a solution to "pulldown" different fps material to the native screen resolution ? Isn't Avivo or Purevideo supposed to do this ? For example if i have a 50hz refresh rate the video processor should do (with a little picture quality decrease) the pull down transformation. How can this be used ? Only with hardware acceleration enabled players or codecs ?

2008-02-18, 13:45	#5 (permalink)
RXP Portal Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	EVR also helps eliminate judder

2008-02-18, 13:58	#6 (permalink)
alanwww1 Portal Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Country:	Thanks for everyone for the useful info. I already used VMR9 exclusive mode, but that just helped about tearing, but not juddering. Is this Reclock utility really a sound codec, or it is a video codec. How can this make let's say a 24fps content adjusted to 30hz. Speed up, or some other method ? What happens to the sound in this case ? I tried EVR on XP, but all i got is black screen. I don't want to use Vista at all. Any idea how to use EVR on XP ?

2008-02-25, 21:34	#7 (permalink)
bolders Portal Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 70 Thanks: 3 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts Country: My System	I have always been plauged by jumpy video playback from my HTPC (normally during slow panning over landscapes - fast motion seems fine). I am begining to wonder if truly smooth playback of video is possible and begining to think that my desire for a PC based system to play back video will never be realised in the way I want. I really dont want to switch to a standalone DVD player but at the moment it gives better resuls . I have recently tried changing refresh rates as outlined by Taipan with encouraging results however AVI files which are at 23.976Hz still have some jitter. This is where I believe Reclock may solve my problems however I can not get it to work in media portal. If I try to play a video reclock will display an error window saying "your video board is not compatible with reclock (insufficent or bad driver support)" However if I play a video in media player it functions Ok. I have this problem with my HTPC (AMD 2500 XP with a geforce 6200), My main PC (Althon 64 3800 X2 with Geforce 7800GT) and my laptop which is running intel graphics. All systems display the same error and all are running Media Portal 0.2.3 with SVN 17258 Im also running TV3 on my HTPC which is also rev 17258. So my first questions are to gibman. What version of reclock are you using. What hardware are you running (i.e. CPU and GFX card) and what version of media portal are you using. My next questions are to Taipan. Do you change refresh while you are running Media Portal and does it cause any problems with Media Portal crashing etc. Thanks in advance for any replies. I am really hoping to finally get my video playback smooth

2008-02-26, 00:35	#10 (permalink)
bolders Portal Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 70 Thanks: 3 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts Country: My System	Thanks Taipan - I will have to play with that when i get some time. robyf - thanks for the suggestion. disabling exclusive mode has cured the error and initial results look very promising . It would seem that as you have suggested, Reclock can not run when exclusive mode is enabled. I am getting a small amount of tearing but my video playback has never been better. My first tests indicate that I am close to video nirvana (Peace at Last) Thanks again all ur comments have been really helpfull bolders