SageTV Stealing our skins?

[PGPfan]

Khris,

I certainly don't agree that logo's to a company are nearly as important as it appears you do. That's cool, though. I know that thousands of people 'illegally' use Chevrolet logo's on t-shirts, etc. that are sold everyday and Chevrolet doesn't seem to have much of a beef with it. Perhaps if they really cared enough about 'tarnising their image', they could prosecute all offenders and make enough money from court settlements to stay in business.

jawbroken,

I agree that the skin was inspired by Microsoft (although I think the original background was a direct rip, but I'm not sure-no big deal either way), what I'm trying to point out is not to get your panies in a bunch over it. The products themselves is what will ultimately make them stand or fail, not the skins. Sure one of the Sage members used a lot of images from MP, but since MP doesn't have an identical feature set it wasn't a total 'rip and copy'. As for your comment about a 'disclaimer' being "lame", I guess you are entitled to your opinion but not everyone shares it: (from the creater of the "Blue Two Metal" skin for MP - "I haven't asked for permission to use any graphics from the creator of BlueTwo (awesome job BTW!), if you read this and want me to remove my version of your skin let me know." Might want to play 'ethics police' with him as well.) And yes, copyright is 'automatic', and if the creator has a problem with how his/her work is used then THEY can make a complaint and get it corrected.

guypetj-

You are truly a voice of reason, and I agree completely with your meaning.

Khris,

You can be a "cheerleader" all you want, although making foolish statements like "inferior product" without stating your arguement just makes you sound like a foolish sheep. However, time will tell as to which is truly superior...

-PGPfan

[Khris]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Khris,

You can be a "cheerleader" all you want, although making foolish statements like "inferior product" without stating your arguement just makes you sound like a foolish sheep. However, time will tell as to which is truly superior...

-PGPfan

OMG! Are you unfamiliar with the terms "sarcacm" and/or "tongue in cheek". :roll:

Either that or I perhaps hit a nerve and you do realize that MP is better!

Regardless.....I will continue "Cheerleading" for MP as I've tried the various other HTPC products, and (in my opinion) is by far the best!

[rob3435]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Khris,

I certainly don't agree that logo's to a company are nearly as important as it appears you do. That's cool, though. I know that thousands of people 'illegally' use Chevrolet logo's on t-shirts, etc. that are sold everyday and Chevrolet doesn't seem to have much of a beef with it. Perhaps if they really cared enough about 'tarnising their image', they could prosecute all offenders and make enough money from court settlements to stay in business.

-PGPfan

PGPfan

A couple issues... First Chevrolet and Chevrolet's Logo are trademarks of GM, therefore anyone who want's to sell t-shirts with these logos must have a license where GM's trademark is valid and enforced. Second, Chevrolet's Logo on t-shirts helps both advertise for both GM and the t-shirt maker, thus leading to sales. However this situation is okay for both parites since they compete in different markets. (car market vs the t-shirt market)

The simple issue at hand, is SageTV has a skin with MediaPortal's Logo on it. Since both Software have a similar function and the same market, this has the possibility of tarnishing both parties. (Lawsuit example: Microsoft vs. "Lindows")

Back to your car anolgy for a second, this is the same thing as Chevrolet sticking Ford F-150 stickers on their Silverado's to increase sales. In which case Ford would sue them up the wazzo...

The simple remedy, if SageTV has permission to use the skin, they should just remove the "MediaPortal" branding images with their own "SageTV" branding images and continue using the skin.

Rob

[Marcusb]

I don't think the original designers of the skin and icons have any issues with people using them for other apps, as long as they make a mention of the people who originally created them. This was covered a while ago when this skin appeared in another HTPC app with no acknowledgement.

As to the use of the MP logo, I actually quite like the sentiment of the Sage TV creator and their reasons for doing it, but I do think that went a little too far. I'm sure if the logo was removed then there would be no issue, but so far no one is really in a position to comment.

I suggest everyone cool off a little and wait until the "skinners" can sort it out amongst themselves. Just like last time.

@PGPfan, how long ago was it you tried MP. Things move very quickly in the OpenSource community ;-)

[Khris]

I think it boils down to people need to get permission to use graphics/logos *BEFORE* actually using them.

Swiping them and then putting a little disclaimer "If the authors do not want their graphics used, please notify us and we will remove them" is just bunk!

Any reputable person, or business for that matter, would always seek prior permission.

[jawbroken]

Yeah, that was my feeling on the issue. I have no problem with the skin being the same in SageTV, only if permission wasn't asked beforehand.

EDIT: My main problem was actually the "WELL YOU DON'T HAVE COPYRIGHT" comment, which was inaccurate and childish.

[Commodore 64]

Well since I still have to use SageTV for ATSC PVR duties, I like the fact that there is a MP skin for it since the Sage Default skin is absolute crap. Until I can move to MP exclusively, the MP based theme helps reduce the "sting" of using SageTV.

MCE 2005 has a lot of problems. SageTV has a lot of problems. MP has a lot of problems. I'm willing to accept that the HTPC represents a nascient and very complicated market. HTPC front-end software needs a lot of testing where developers need to be able to interface with users/testers. There's just too many TV cards, broadcast standards, etc. and nobody seems to have it right quite yet.

Media Portal excels as a media center. IMHO, MP has no peer for video and music collections stored on a hard drive.

Right now SageTV has a pretty good PVR product with decent ATSC support. But it really lacks in the media center department. You can't even start a movie where you left off, for God's Sake!

The short of it is this: At this time it seems to me that MCE, Sage and MP all still very much works in progress. As such, SageTV and MCE 2005 customers basically pay to be beta testers. I paid over $100 for SageTV 4 and a Client license and quite frankly, I have just as many issues with Sage as I do with MP (perhaps more).

But, with MP, I'm not expected to pay to be a Beta Tester.

This is precisely why I would rather donate my testing time to MP than Sage. It's also precisely why I spent an extra $300 in hardware (so far) to build a rig exclusively for testing ATSC cards in MP. And Goddamit, we are going to get ATSC support worked out and we are going to get EPG sorted out, and when that happens, I suspect it really won't matter whether a SageTV skin as a MP logo or not. In fact, at that point, I'd wager that Sage Devs would prefer that there was no allusion to MP at all.

At this time though, we should applaud the Sage TV devs because they allow users create plugins and skins for their software. It makes the product better.