Vista and content protection (DRM)

[cowpie]

DRM is the wrong way to go in my mind, period. Capitailism is exactly why it's stupid--I paid money for my computer, therefore I own it. DRM is based limiting the use to either renting or locking you into a businiess model that didn't exist. Subscription models.

Here's the problem with it---it's trying to leverage yet another monopoly over computer users: inordinant control over BYTES. Remember, This entire PC revolution was based on a happy open mistake by IBM!

As you say, DRM does suck. BUt Just because there isn't a better way shouldn't mean MS should just throw their hands in the air and lock up everything. Want to take a screenshot of Media center in vista? Guess what you can't. They're trying to plug the analog hole--which means non HDCP compliant monitors are useless with Cablecards and premium content. Want to copy your cablecard recording to another computer on your network? CAN'T DO THAT! THe "feautres" list on Wikipedia should have mentionned this and all the other drm in Vista.

Better workable solution? I'd say allofmp3. I know tons of people who paid for that stuff. But the labels don't want to even touch that direction.

[samuel337]

I paid money for a book. I own that copy of the book. So what? I don't have the right to photocopy that book a million times. Why is it any different to software (the book) and a photocopier (the computer)?

If capitalism is why its stupid, what are you suggesting? That to advance we have to change to something else? Or are you a FSF fanatic...

I agree that just because there isn't a better way doesn't mean MS should force it on to us. But think of it from another perspective - if MS doesn't impose it, the record companies, movie companies etc. will just use a 3rd party one, and probably multiple ones. This just results in massive confusion for the general public.

Now, as a general consumer, not as informed, technology users, we'd most likely be buying DRM content in the future because that's the only way the content is *legally* available to us electronically. Is it better to sacrifice those who don't want DRM and will never use DRM (people like you), or to create massive confusion in the industry with many non-standard DRM solutions (joe public)? That's the dillemma Microsoft faces.

Ultimately, the goal is to reduce piracy, and DRM is an attempt at that because it allows content providers to provide their content and enforce the terms. Whether or not DRM providers go overboard in their terms is not relevant - we're talking about the technology here that enables that.

And allofmp3 is not a solution for the vast majority of us (i.e. not living in Russia). allofmp3 is just as legal as me using BT, so why not just use BT?

Until we morph as a society into something else that's not capitalist-centered, DRM is here to stay, whatever form it may be in.

Sam

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by samuel337

Linux has a long way to go before it will be anywhere as user friendly as Windows or Mac. One of the biggest obstacles is its community - nerds want to be able to fiddle and change everything to their liking. Average joes just want everything to work out of the box.
Sam

Have you tried SuSE Linux lately? It works "out of the box" It is very good at recognizing hardware and making everything work. MythTV needs alot of configuration, but so does MP.

But now Novell, the owner of SuSE, and Microsoft have signed some kind of agreement not to sue each other. I hope Linux DRM isn't next.

[Roberdin]

As I understand the situation, Microsoft's hand in this has been forced by the record and film companies in the United States. Microsoft wants Vista to be the ultimate platform on which to watch films and play music, but the aforesaid companies aren't going to let Windows play their media without DRM. Thus, Microsoft has had little choice but to comply to the letter.

[samuel337]

Paul S:
In fact I have - I installed OpenSuSE 10.2 recently and it was a pain trying to get my video card/LCD monitor to work because SaX2 didn't work properly. In the end I overwrote the X11.conf file with the default install one.

Then I realised the O/S nv driver doesn't like my 7300GT so I had to install the official nvidia driver to get 3D accel. and xgl working (in fact I still had to take a leap-of-faith and use the SHIFT-key-hack to enable xgl).

Then I had to screw around again to get some sort of MP3 media library program working (Helix Banshee, as RealPlayer is just that - a player only). Helix Banshee is really slow too, even if I'm accessing music on a local drive (a fair sized collection).

And now I can't work out why I can't mount my shares using mount so I can use them in other apps. Most apps I've tried don't recognise the smb:// network browsing extension yet, apart from Nautilus.

Its much, much, much better that it used to be, especially when apps like Synaptic came along. And of course, I'm negating to mention that everything else worked out of the box (apart from my DTV card because OpenSuSE doesn't have an MPEG2 decoder) and the bundled apps work without a problem too (except for Zenworks, which crashes sometimes). But it can be much better - not just to match Windows, but to surpass it.

Roberdin:
Nice points too.

Sam

[Paul S]

I have been using SuSE 10.1. The package manager (updater) was screwed up, so installed the Smart Package Manager. It works great! All updates and installations (including MythTV) are handled flawlessly. For audio I like XMMS and VLC, to get them to use mp3 just update.

I do have older harware, a pcHDTV HD-3000 and a nVidia 6600GT with a Turtle Beach sound card.

The packman repository has alot of good updates.

Paul

[rtv]

Please do not start another Linux vs. Windows thread (your recommendations are welcome - although I prefer Ubuntu ) and stick to the topic which is:
VISTA

[Paul S]

Actually, the topic is Vista and DRM.

And, I would like to ask, how will Media Portal be able to function as a PVR in Vista? It seems that what I use MP for the most, record TV shows (timeshift) will be severely limited in Vista. As broadcast television falls under the protected content umbrella, I don't see this as working properly with Vista.

I use both Windows and Linux, they are networked together and function fine together. I see no Linux vs Windows war. That is only a perception in the minds of some. Linux has no DRM, so that is why it was mentioned.

And sorry, I am well aware of how Linux is viewed here and will refrain from mentioning it in the future.

It's just hard to not talk about a good thing.

Paul

[Roberdin]

Well, even the newest TV cards aren't going to be flagging content as protected for some time. And TV transmitters can't really change this - not without changing everyone else's hardware as well.

I'm interested to see how this DRM stuff is going to play out, actually. Already, there are concerns within the UK that DRM is going too far: there are plans in the works to update copyright legislation. At the moment it could go either way - I suspect that provisions will be brought in to prevent people from bypassing content protection, but that will likely come at a cost (for the producers) of reducing the level of restrictions.

http://www.apig.org.uk/current-activ...anagement.html

A recommendation that OFCOM publish guidance to make it clear that companies distributing Technical Protection Measures systems in the UK would, if they have features such as those in Sony-BMG’s MediaMax and XCP systems, run a significant risk of being prosecuted for criminal actions.

=D

The European Parliament (or some equally aloof European organisation) has issued directives requiring member states to introduce legal protection for DRM, but as far as I'm aware, very few states have been willing to actually do this. France has passed a law to this effect (though not signed it yet), but with the provision that DRM technologies must be interoperable. This makes France the most likely country to take a major stand; from what I've read in that report, much of Vista's protection system will already be illegal. Apple only were recently (very narrowly) permitted to continue selling music through their iTunes store: the French didn't like the fact that it would only play on iPods and not their competitors' music players. This case is continuing with the likely result that Apple will have to change their system for the French.

Furthermore, the French have introduced a clause that permits one to copy copyrighted works to immediate family members and close friends without the permission of the copyright holder. Restricting this will be a further offence. It looks to me like the French have the right idea.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Roberdin

Well, even the newest TV cards aren't going to be flagging content as protected for some time. And TV transmitters can't really change this - not without changing everyone else's hardware as well.

It appears that Vista will not need a broadcast flag. Any media content that is not digitally signed with some kind of license, will be flagged by the system. Playing this media will result in a low-quality output that is system wide.

Now, maybe media that is recorded with the Vista version of media center will have a license. Still, how will this affect Media Portal?

Of course, the report on Vista's DMR policy could be a load of bull-(manure).