Optimum PAL/NTSC tv to 1366x768 tv conversion filter?

knutinh · 2006-09-01, 11:22

I know that this probably isnt the right forum to discuss this stuff. But here goes...

I have some ideas for converting 720x576@50i PAL material and/or 720x480@60i NTSC material to "optimum quality" 1366x768@50p/60p and 720p resolutions, fitting 95% of the current lcd-tv users out there.

My thoughts circle around "joint" deinterlace/scaling and/or simple super-resolution to help scaling and noise removal. Possibly enhanced by motion-compensation. Improved frame-rate-conversion would be cool as well, but I have less faith in that it can be done any better than frame skipping/repeat (Philips anyone?)

The limitations should be pure software-only direct-show container and independent of source.

Anyone else interested in this stuff, or know what forums to check out? I am aware of the www.doom9.org forum as well as DScaler home page.

-k

ziphnor · 2006-09-01, 12:19

I would think that the MPEG-2 decoder currently handled this task? Do you think we can do a better job?

However, i have been wondering whether the scaling is done in a seperate step myself. One thing that also worries me is that the aspect ratios seems to be doing their own scaling as well, and multiple scaling steps should preferably be avoided.

jawbroken · 2006-09-01, 12:25

It seems to me that creating specialised scaling filters for various input and output resolutions and frame rates is significant work for very little (if any) gain over the general purpose video scalers?

MrSensitive · 2006-09-01, 12:40

ffdshow has a lot of advanced scaling and deinterlacing algorithms at your disposal.

you can even create profiles based on input resolution etc..

on avsforum there are a lot of posts discussing optimal ffdshow configurations for several types of media...

MediaPortal already supports the dscaler filters wich are also superior deinterlacers...

knutinh · 2006-09-01, 13:05

Thanks for the input.

My idea was not creating a "hardwired" scaler, but perhaps use those parameters as a "goal" in terms of cpu-use etc. I am guessing that a very large percentage of users have SD PAL/NTSC input from cable/OTA/sat either analog or digital that they want to display on a high resolution monitor, typically 1366x768 or similar.

My idea was not to do de-interlace then scale, then denoise, then sharpen, but to exploit knowledge of the entire processing chain at once. It may well be that MPEG decoder meta-data could be beneficial, this cause even higher integration. Also, as this is quite conceptual, I imagine some discussion and simulation would be necessary.

Basically, I think that my current DVB-T -> MP -> purevideo - 40" LCD image can be improved upon. I dont know, however, if _I_ am able to =)

-k

2006-09-01, 11:22	#1 (permalink)
knutinh Portal Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 555 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Optimum PAL/NTSC tv to 1366x768 tv conversion filter? I know that this probably isnt the right forum to discuss this stuff. But here goes... I have some ideas for converting 720x576@50i PAL material and/or 720x480@60i NTSC material to "optimum quality" 1366x768@50p/60p and 720p resolutions, fitting 95% of the current lcd-tv users out there. My thoughts circle around "joint" deinterlace/scaling and/or simple super-resolution to help scaling and noise removal. Possibly enhanced by motion-compensation. Improved frame-rate-conversion would be cool as well, but I have less faith in that it can be done any better than frame skipping/repeat (Philips anyone?) The limitations should be pure software-only direct-show container and independent of source. Anyone else interested in this stuff, or know what forums to check out? I am aware of the www.doom9.org forum as well as DScaler home page. -k

2006-09-01, 12:40	#4 (permalink)
MrSensitive Portal Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	ffdshow has a lot of advanced scaling and deinterlacing algorithms at your disposal. you can even create profiles based on input resolution etc.. on avsforum there are a lot of posts discussing optimal ffdshow configurations for several types of media... MediaPortal already supports the dscaler filters wich are also superior deinterlacers... __________________ MPBlue: control Mediaportal using PocketPC or smartphone

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2006-09-01, 12:19	#2 (permalink)
ziphnor Portal Developer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Copenhagen Age: 29 Posts: 709 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts Country: My System	I would think that the MPEG-2 decoder currently handled this task? Do you think we can do a better job? However, i have been wondering whether the scaling is done in a seperate step myself. One thing that also worries me is that the aspect ratios seems to be doing their own scaling as well, and multiple scaling steps should preferably be avoided.

2006-09-01, 12:25	#3 (permalink)
jawbroken Portal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 22 Posts: 707 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My System	It seems to me that creating specialised scaling filters for various input and output resolutions and frame rates is significant work for very little (if any) gain over the general purpose video scalers?

2006-09-01, 13:05	#5 (permalink)
knutinh Portal Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 555 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the input. My idea was not creating a "hardwired" scaler, but perhaps use those parameters as a "goal" in terms of cpu-use etc. I am guessing that a very large percentage of users have SD PAL/NTSC input from cable/OTA/sat either analog or digital that they want to display on a high resolution monitor, typically 1366x768 or similar. My idea was not to do de-interlace then scale, then denoise, then sharpen, but to exploit knowledge of the entire processing chain at once. It may well be that MPEG decoder meta-data could be beneficial, this cause even higher integration. Also, as this is quite conceptual, I imagine some discussion and simulation would be necessary. Basically, I think that my current DVB-T -> MP -> purevideo - 40" LCD image can be improved upon. I dont know, however, if _I_ am able to =) -k