i-loop's design - work in progress - 2007-08-10

[infinityloop]

Originally Posted by balrog

I didn't know that the server acted like that, but is that really the way the server should act? Shouldn't the TV Server be able to detect that the client is gone/hanging and free the card since it isn't used anymore?

if you know a smart way to get then done, then this can be changed.
until now, we have not found such a smart solution (talking about the code now).

Originally Posted by balrog

I think this is the reason why we have so different views on how the problem should be solved. As soon as I connect my PC to the living room projector and manage it with a remote only, it stops being a PC. It is just an (advanced) TV which should be possible to manage by someone who just wants to watch TV and is not very much into PCs at all. (Believe it or not, a lot of people get very nervous when they see texts like ATTENTION and are forced to make a choice. (Did I break something?))

sorry, but i realy have a proplem to understand why this screen should be "so confusing" for some users.
the purpose of ATTENTION is to stop the user, so he reads that realy clear and simple description about what happened/is about to happen.

if the user tries to tune a un-available channel, then the system will tell him why that can not be tuned.
the system will also allow the user to decide what he wants to do next (tune next available channel, open channel selector, tune that channel by freeing a card)
and if the user then decides to free a card, then he will be stopped by ATTENTION to read befor pressing a button.


this seems to be (again) a feature where users think that it will be too complex too use...... and that will change as soon as they use it the first time (as always).

i think that this is what a powerful HTPC application should be.
it should tell the user why something he just told the system to do did not worked, and offers the user options what to do next.

[Spragleknas]

Is there any way to implement:

1 - IMDB search: From guide or whatever using [info]-button? Perhaps a free/open source? I really think this is a good idea, since many movies are poorly described and no "rating" from EPG.
2 - IPTV: Yes, again: This will probably become more in use as years pass - but a "virtual" TV-card might be the best option, so there might not be any need to change the GUI.

I really like the work you have done with this, i-loop!

[infinityloop]

Originally Posted by Spragleknas

1 - IMDB search: From guide or whatever using [info]-button? Perhaps a free/open source? I really think this is a good idea, since many movies are poorly described and no "rating" from EPG.

hmm...... not a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Spragleknas

2 - IPTV: Yes, again: This will probably become more in use as years pass - but a "virtual" TV-card might be the best option, so there might not be any need to change the GUI.

100% server side, and does not require changes in MyTV GUI/concept/usability imo.

Originally Posted by Spragleknas

I really like the work you have done with this, i-loop!

[vuego]

Originally Posted by infinityloop

it should tell the user why something he just told the system to do did not worked, and offers the user options what to do next.

I totally agree. I wish most GUIs worked this way.

I was thinking we could use the Episode-num information (for series) from the EPG to help users decide which tuner to free. If the recordings in the Attention screen has an upcoming rerun it could be indicated using an icon of some sort. If the user decides to cancel the recording the rerun would be automatically scheduled. Or perhaps a new screen should offer the user a choice to schedule the rerun.

[balrog]

Originally Posted by infinityloop

if you know a smart way to get then done, then this can be changed.
until now, we have not found such a smart solution (talking about the code now).

Hmm... I must admit that I haven't looked at the code, so what I am proposing might be completely useless and/or impractical to implement depending on the exisitng code base, but since you asked I made an attempt on a solution.

As I see it there can be three situtations when the TV server thinks there is a client receiveing the stream while there in reality is noone watching the stream and the tuner could be freed.

1. PC is switched off or the TV client crashes
2. There is a SW bug which causes the TV client to hang
3. Somebody leaves the TV client without turning it off

A simple solution to situation number 1 is to introduce heartbeat monitoring, i.e. the TV client sends a message to the TV server every 5 minutes. If the TV server does not receive the heartbeat it expects that the TV client has been stopped in some way and is not receiving the stream anymore and the tuner can be freed. Heartbeat monitoring will of course limit the scalability of the system, but since the heartbeat frequency can be set fairly low the impact on scalability should be limited.

You can always discuss if situation number 2 should be managed at all or if it is better that SW faults are exposed and therefore possible to correct. I am of the opinion that no SW will ever be fault free, so it is better to design for robustness:
If no remote control activity has been detected for 3 hours, the TV server asks the TV client to return some information which is known to both the TV client and the TV server, but is changing over time. The check is to make sure that the client is not hanging and I expect that you can find some good shared information in the stream that is sent to the client. If the check fails, the tuner can be freed.

I don't know how likely situation 3 is, but if it happens and you have a large network it might be handy.

If no remote control activity has been detected for 6 hours a "shutting down" message is shown on the screen of the TV client and a timer starts to count during 30 seconds. If the user responds, the stream continues, but he/she fails, the tuner is freed.

The proposed solutions are independent of eachother so you you can pick the situations you want to manage or modify/replace solutions without impacting the other solutions.

[infinityloop]

Originally Posted by balrog

A simple solution to situation number 1 is to introduce heartbeat monitoring,

i raised that idea too once. any volunteers to code it?

[infinityloop]

i have just finished the re-creation of the card selection dialog to show if there are multiple users accessing it.



navigation:
its always only possible to select a card, not an instance of it (because this wont make sense).
as soon as you select a card the "take control" text is shown.

[mzemina]

Chris - Thanks for your update. But, I wonder how many people will want PIN control for this "take control" feature?

[infinityloop]

Originally Posted by mzemina

Chris - Thanks for your update. But, I wonder how many people will want PIN control for this "take control" feature?

imo. it is not necessary because you do not get directly to that section + there are very clear descriptions what it is.
thats why i will not add the "PIN protection" to my proposal.

[Auron_X]

My proposal

Config:
- never ask (always select next available tuner)
- ask (user decides)
---> allow "take control" only with pin