Community Project - IRC Channel is #mp-skins on EFNet - Page 2

knutinh · 2006-07-13, 10:29

What is the fundamental difference between skinning and application programming that leads to CVS/SVN collaborative work working with one and not the other?

If great software like MP can be made by a gang of programmers, then why cant great skins be made by a gang og skinners?

regards
Knut

RubaDuck7 · 2006-07-13, 10:32

Sounds like a good idea. Targeting v0.3 should allow a bit more freedom to design something new as well.

I'd love to help, provided I can find the time. I work full-time and I'm also finishing up my thesis in my spare time this summer/fall.

Anyway, I work as a software product/interaction designer, so I have some experience in designing consistent UIs, keeping complex programs simple to use, usability, that sort of thing.

Having mofux and Harley involved on this , I'd say we're off to a good start. I was going to add that now we're just waiting for Vanessa to sign up, but I guess we will have to take a look at 3DMP beta 2 first, it just might blow everything else out of the water.

knutinh · 2006-07-13, 10:41

I have some basic questions:
Is it worth it re-inventing the wheel, and will people appreciate it? In other words, should one try to make something new for the sake of making something new, or only when it adds some user value. When I visit "inventive" websites I usually curse the webdesigner in every thinkable way =)

What kind of "theme" will most people like, the cool/sober mac-like "Clarity" skin, something similar to MCE/BlueTwo, very colorful/contrasty nintendo-ish theme, etc? Should it be optimised for CRT-tvs, large HD screens or pc monitors?

regards
Knut

mofux · 2006-07-13, 12:04

Quote:

Harley wrote: ..i can make the gfx for the skin and also the animations. Iv you want.
Bavarian will make support to implement animations by starting with commands, So it would be great to play arround with this.

fantastic!

Quote:

RobaDuck7 wrote: I'd love to help, provided I can find the time. I work full-time and I'm also finishing up my thesis in my spare time this summer/fall.

Anyway, I work as a software product/interaction designer, so I have some experience in designing consistent UIs, keeping complex programs simple to use, usability, that sort of thing.

sounds great - would be cool to have you in team then...

Quote:

knutinh wrote: Is it worth it re-inventing the wheel, and will people appreciate it? In other words, should one try to make something new for the sake of making something new, or only when it adds some user value. When I visit "inventive" websites I usually curse the webdesigner in every thinkable way =)

that's a good question and i really hope that we can add some user value but how can we say that without giving it a try?

Quote:

knutinh wrote: What kind of "theme" will most people like, the cool/sober mac-like "Clarity" skin, something similar to MCE/BlueTwo, very colorful/contrasty nintendo-ish theme, etc? Should it be optimised for CRT-tvs, large HD screens or pc monitors?

we need to find that out! my experiance is that people trend to like darker skins - we need to find a patch between all that worlds maybe...

mbuzina · 2006-07-13, 13:23

If mofux leads such an effort it will be worthwhile.

I have one suggestion (since I am no big gfx artist and probably lack the time to code xml, but I am allways quick with good advice :lol: ): Please use the newer layouting features of the skinning engine (maybe request new layouting features from the devs as well!). Avoiding absolute positioning is something all web designers are keen on. Not just for fun, but because it drastically reduces the amount of work required to keep up to date. E.g. if you use a design like my TV use something like:

Code:

<layoutHor>
  <layoutVert>
    <button>Program Guide</button>
    <select>Channel Group</select>
    <select>Channel</select>
    <radio>TV On</radio>
    ....
  </layoutVert>
  <TVPreview>
</layoutHor>

I know the tags are horribly wrong, but I hope you get my point. Adding a button below the Program Guide would be very easy and does not need to change all the others.

my 0.02 â‚¬ worth

mofux · 2006-07-13, 13:25

i already thought about using that and it really makes sense! it should be more easy to get a common looking interface with that as well...

we will make up some guidelines for that then...

RubaDuck7 · 2006-07-13, 13:36

Does the skinning engine use XAML/WPF style separation of functionality and form?

I.e. with XAML you would just have an underlying class that supplies lists of items and the markup on top presents them in whatever form is useful, markup button are linked to methods etc...

mofux · 2006-07-13, 14:10

it is planned to go such a way in the (don't know how far) future. currently there are many things hardcoded and you can't really change the feel of a control like it would be possible with xaml...

smnnekho · 2006-07-13, 14:27

well that sounds like the hell of a team so far (-; this could really get great

marshall · 2006-07-13, 19:16

I would be glad to help with either graphics or XML. I'm probably not as quick as some, but have experience with XML-based programming, Photoshop and Illustrator, and I work for free.

As far as style differences go, it might be good to think of this whole skin as a test of group skinning. It will be a good way to identify the good and bad and work through some of the issues. Afterward, people could start other group skins with those who are like-minded stylewise.

Another thought is having some of of the skinning virgins (like me) work on modifying the skin for 16:9. You would get a second skin out of it while providing a good way to learn and find bugs.

2006-07-13, 10:32	#12 (permalink)
RubaDuck7 Portal Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sounds like a good idea. Targeting v0.3 should allow a bit more freedom to design something new as well. I'd love to help, provided I can find the time. I work full-time and I'm also finishing up my thesis in my spare time this summer/fall. Anyway, I work as a software product/interaction designer, so I have some experience in designing consistent UIs, keeping complex programs simple to use, usability, that sort of thing. Having mofux and Harley involved on this , I'd say we're off to a good start. I was going to add that now we're just waiting for Vanessa to sign up, but I guess we will have to take a look at 3DMP beta 2 first, it just might blow everything else out of the water. __________________ Latex waterfowl, unite! - MP: 0.2.0.4 Case: Silverstone LC17B Athlon64 3200+ ,1GB RAM, NVidia GF6600 (passive), 200GB HD, Asus A8N-E OS: Window MCE SP2 + updates TVcard: FireDTV-C Remote: MCE 2005

2006-07-13, 13:23	#15 (permalink)
mbuzina Portal Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Age: 34 Posts: 459 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Country:	If mofux leads such an effort it will be worthwhile. I have one suggestion (since I am no big gfx artist and probably lack the time to code xml, but I am allways quick with good advice :lol: ): Please use the newer layouting features of the skinning engine (maybe request new layouting features from the devs as well!). Avoiding absolute positioning is something all web designers are keen on. Not just for fun, but because it drastically reduces the amount of work required to keep up to date. E.g. if you use a design like my TV use something like: Code: <layoutHor> <layoutVert> <button>Program Guide</button> <select>Channel Group</select> <select>Channel</select> <radio>TV On</radio> .... </layoutVert> <TVPreview> </layoutHor> I know the tags are horribly wrong, but I hope you get my point. Adding a button below the Program Guide would be very easy and does not need to change all the others. my 0.02 â‚¬ worth __________________ * Power is nothing without control *

2006-07-13, 13:36	#17 (permalink)
RubaDuck7 Portal Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does the skinning engine use XAML/WPF style separation of functionality and form? I.e. with XAML you would just have an underlying class that supplies lists of items and the markup on top presents them in whatever form is useful, markup button are linked to methods etc... __________________ Latex waterfowl, unite! - MP: 0.2.0.4 Case: Silverstone LC17B Athlon64 3200+ ,1GB RAM, NVidia GF6600 (passive), 200GB HD, Asus A8N-E OS: Window MCE SP2 + updates TVcard: FireDTV-C Remote: MCE 2005

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
KNC 1 DVB-C / cannot tune channels	lutz	General Support	15	2006-10-01 12:04
Technotrend DVB-S no LNB switch	Erbsenkopp	General Support	0	2006-08-03 10:04
Technotrend Budget 1500 CI no LNB switch	Erbsenkopp	General Support	0	2006-08-03 09:46
Tuning-problem - FireDTV - Stockholm-Nacka	alek01	Installation, configuration support	2	2006-07-11 00:06
Xmltv set big hassle for a newb	Anonymous	Tips and Tricks	38	2004-12-18 21:09

2006-07-13, 10:29	#11 (permalink)
knutinh Portal Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 555 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	What is the fundamental difference between skinning and application programming that leads to CVS/SVN collaborative work working with one and not the other? If great software like MP can be made by a gang of programmers, then why cant great skins be made by a gang og skinners? regards Knut

2006-07-13, 10:41	#13 (permalink)
knutinh Portal Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 555 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have some basic questions: Is it worth it re-inventing the wheel, and will people appreciate it? In other words, should one try to make something new for the sake of making something new, or only when it adds some user value. When I visit "inventive" websites I usually curse the webdesigner in every thinkable way =) What kind of "theme" will most people like, the cool/sober mac-like "Clarity" skin, something similar to MCE/BlueTwo, very colorful/contrasty nintendo-ish theme, etc? Should it be optimised for CRT-tvs, large HD screens or pc monitors? regards Knut

2006-07-13, 13:25	#16 (permalink)
mofux Portal Designer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dresden, Germany Posts: 671 Thanks: 34 Thanked 31 Times in 19 Posts	i already thought about using that and it really makes sense! it should be more easy to get a common looking interface with that as well... we will make up some guidelines for that then...

2006-07-13, 14:10	#18 (permalink)
mofux Portal Designer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dresden, Germany Posts: 671 Thanks: 34 Thanked 31 Times in 19 Posts	it is planned to go such a way in the (don't know how far) future. currently there are many things hardcoded and you can't really change the feel of a control like it would be possible with xaml...

2006-07-13, 14:27	#19 (permalink)
smnnekho Retired Team Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany Age: 24 Posts: 482 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My System	well that sounds like the hell of a team so far (-; this could really get great

2006-07-13, 19:16	#20 (permalink)
marshall Portal Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Portland, OR Age: 29 Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Country: My System	I would be glad to help with either graphics or XML. I'm probably not as quick as some, but have experience with XML-based programming, Photoshop and Illustrator, and I work for free. As far as style differences go, it might be good to think of this whole skin as a test of group skinning. It will be a good way to identify the good and bad and work through some of the issues. Afterward, people could start other group skins with those who are like-minded stylewise. Another thought is having some of of the skinning virgins (like me) work on modifying the skin for 16:9. You would get a second skin out of it while providing a good way to learn and find bugs.