Gettinging smoother playback of video/tv/dvd

[Franky]

for NLS
if what you write is correct:

"anyway this is how I got my nice AMOI 37" 1920x1080P LCD... I first talked to China and made sure they made a new firmware that actually locks 1:1 on 1920x1080 through the HDMI (at 30/50/60Hz)... they did and then I got it. (sound Utopia, well this is what happened)"

AMOI is one of the first LCD that can support full HD 1080P in the world!
I suppose your model is AMOI LC37AF1E 37.
so is interesting to know how it works with different video fonts formats and how to get your firmware...

[NLS]

Yes this is the model.

What are video fonts formats?

To get the new firmware you need to contact your supplier. It is not available publicly and even then you wouldn't be able to flash it (I've seen how it is done, it needs a special serial cable with some special circuitry in the middle).

Anyway the software that is capable of this feature is not "new" any more (it's been out for months) so any TV bought in the last two months probably already has it. (there is an even newer firmware but that helps with other things)

They also have a 42" model that plays 1920x1080 1:1. And a new model is coming soon too.

[kkendall]

man, this is some tough shit! Why oh why did everybody let it grow like this, ...with 3:2, 2:2, 1:1, 50 hz PAL broadcasts, 60 hz NTSC broadcasts, different monitor refresh rates, 24fps, tearing, jitter values, interlaced, progressive....It's just a jungle out there!!
I just want to be able to watch digital tv (DVB-C), watch downloaded films and play dvd's/BD's/HDDVD's, is that too much to ask?

So if I understand correctly, our dvb-c signal here in holland is a PAL signal, 50hz, but the source is 24fps? In America, the signal of dvb is 60hz witch the original material also in 24fps, am I right?
The pc changes this to a correct amount of frames/hz with this pulldown stuff, right?

[KRA]

Wrong...

there is no simple short answer. If I remember correctly, movies are in general made in 24fps, when converted to PAL they just speed it up to 25fps. That's why the movie is "shorter" in europe, conversion to NTSC is more advanced. TV material (tv series etc) is usually made in the format they are broadcast in, so stuff made in EU is 25fps, and 30fps in the US.

Today LCD tv's are popular, these are almost only 60hz, perfect for US made tv-content, although most new tv sets have no problem handling both 50 and 60hz.

Hopeflully with HDTV there will be less problems.

Computers in general are not good at displaying video signals, I wish there was more work beeing done by the gfx card companys like nvidia and ati to display smooth playback, although video quality is good, panning is not. Intervideo/Philips has made something that will give smooth playback of dvd's, but it also mess up the image somehow, and you need a fast cpu.

[kkendall]

Ah ok! So the 24fps material is converted to 25fps at the broadcasters end and then broadcasted as 50Hz PAL signal (Europe) or is converted to 30fps at the broadcasters end and then broadcasted as
60 Hz NTSC signal (USA).

So dvd/hddvd/BD/downloaded videomaterial should be in 25fps in Europe on a 50, 75 or 100 Hz TV. Many companies are starting to bring 100Hz LCDtv's on the market.

Btw, what do you mean with panning...the movement of the camera within the film?

[Spragleknas]

Yes... like this

Panning refers to the horizontal movement or rotation of a film or video camera, or the scanning of a subject horizontally on video or a display device.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panning_(camera)

How "bad" it is depends on many things (interlacing, PAL on 60Hz LCD etc.). Soccer/football (and hockey, I've been told) can look really terrible on a computer...

EDIT: Other "things" that make TV look "un-smooth" (framedropes, jitter, jutter - you name it)
- PAL @ 60Hz LCD (I know I said it already) - or other way around
- Bad de-interlacing
- CPU hog
- IRQ conflicts causing latency (-> TIP: Turn of DXVA/hardware acceleration)
- Poor TV-reception
- Codec-hell
- IDE-disk at PIO
.... SO may things!

[KRA]

I guess I wasn't clear when I said panning, it's not really panning that's the problem. But it's mostly noticable when panning. The problem is lack of smoothnes in general. Like when you watch tv it's 25fps, but when you watch video on a computer although it's playing at 25fps, it looks more like it's playing av 15-20 fps, it's not as smooth. You also se it clearly on scrolling text, both vertical and horisontal, but again most noticably horisontal.

There could be many reasons for this, and it's not a specific problem on my computers, I've seen the same on many different computers, both windows and linux.

When you use "hardware" based output like DXR2 (dvd from creative) PVR350 from hauppuage you get smooth playback. I wish the same "hardware" could be applied to my DVI output.

[kkendall]

Thanks for all your knowhow guys! It helps me a lot.

CPU overload can cause framedrops right?
TV should be for Pal broadcasts on 25 HZ(or 50, 75, 100, 125, etc)
For movies (DVD/HDDVD/BD/downloads) the tv should be on 24 Hz(or 48, 72, 96, 120, etc) if the material is in 24fps.
I have no codecs installed accept ffdshow and the MP codecs to prevent a codec hell
My cablereception is good, it works like a charm on a stand alone receiver and the signalstrength is good.

I don't know what could cause bad de-interlacing. I haven't looked into this yet, could anyone give me a push in the right direction? Is this done by the tvcard, the graficscard, other parts of the pc or the tv?

[KRA]

De-interlacing is done by the codec, and if you use the right codec the gfx card help. If you have a nvidia card then nvidia purevideo decoder is recommended. I you have a ATi card Powerdvd codecs are good.

Regarding the different FPS, if you have LCD tv then it's no point messing around with it imo, because most likely the panel is 60hz, even if it support other hz, it would most likely be converted somehow. If you have an "old" CRT tv then changing hz might be a good idea.

The WMR render that mediaportal use is supposed to hande different framerates, and output it correctly. I've tried different hz settings in mp for my LCD, but didn't notice any difference. Remember to turn on vsync on your gfx card and turn on DX Exclusive mode in the MP setup to get rid of tearing.

[Spragleknas]

Also running MP w/higher priority (see: setup -> general)