Support for .RAW image format?

[PediaMortal]

Hi peeps

Just wondering, I am a photographer and take a lot of .RAW image format pictures, i would love to view all my .RAW pics in MP, will there be support for this format in the future?

I know Microsoft have developed a .RAW image viewer plugin for Explorer, i have tried this on my HTPC but MP does not display them. I am not competent at developing so i could provide the plugin to see if someone could extract code to see whats going on.

Thanks

[rtv]

what happens if you simply add the extension to the picture configuration. Anything special in the log?

[PediaMortal]

Hi there rtv

Thanks for your reply

Just tried adding .raw, .crw and .cr2 (which are my native .raw image format for my particular camera) to the picture extension however still nothing is displayed

The RAW image Thumbnailer/Viewer is a Microsoft Power toy and i have this installed on the HTPC and when using explorer can read and thubnail the images fine.

The Power Toy can be downloaded from the Microsoft website or i can provide it if anyone is interested?

I'm wondering if there are any other photographers in the community who would like to see this little feature? As MP is a great way to view your shots.

Thanks again for your help

[knutinh]

1. Every camera manufacturer use a different raw format (?)

2. The transformation raw->8bit rgb suited for display is non-trivial, and essentially what most of the dsp algos in a digital camera are doing

3. Running a script for using standard conversion of raw files to optimum resolution files for your display resolution should be quite simple using tools like bibble. A 1mpx jpg-file should look as good as a 10mpx, 10Megabyte raw file on a standard 720p flatscreen

regards
knut

[rtv]

Yeah, I've guessed something like that. For compatibility I'm not using raw format on my Panasonic Lumix, especially since it doesn't look any better than fine jpegs.

A binary program is usually of not much help if we cannot look the "inside" of it.

[knutinh]

the discussion of raw vs jpg for cameras is very different from wether or not to support raw in mp.

I cant see the big use for diect support of raw images in mp if its going to take some work, as long as external conversion is simple and hardly consumes extra hd space.

If you as a serious photographer, he'll likely tell you that raw is preferred for capture because you are using the entire dynamic range of the sensor, not only 8 bits.

http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/
This guy has done a lot of testing on digital and analog cameras. Amongst the more interesting stuff is the graph below:

Figure 5a. Jpeg image values plotted against 16-bit linear image values shows the jpeg transfer function (the default contrast on the 10D). Note that the jpeg saturates at about half the level of the 16-bit data. The 16-bit file has a greater than 1 stop increase in dynamic range before data saturation compared to the jpeg image.

Of course, as long as computer displays and printers are low-dynamic range as well as low dynamic presicion, the increased precision of the raw file matters little unless you are planning to post-process that image with exposure compensation etc.

-k

[knutinh]

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/01/209226

"File under fire

The RAW formats themselves are specific to digital camera manufacturers. Canon's current format uses the extension .cr2, a successor to the preceding generation's .crw. Nikon uses .nef, Minolta .mrw, Fuji .raf, Pentax .pef, Olympus .orf, Hasselblad .3fr. Although most are based internally on a variation of the hyper-extensible TIFF, all are proprietary and subject to change with each new camera model, and most are officially undocumented.

There are two RAW formats not produced by camera manufacturers. Foveon's .x3f was created by chip maker Foveon for its special image sensors, found in cameras manufactured by Sigma and Polaroid. In 2004, software giant Adobe announced it was launching a new RAW format called .dng that would serve as an umbrella format for all of the others. The company produced a free DNG Converter application, but as of today DNG has not taken over. Many see the DNG move as a blatant attempt to take over the RAW format market by a jealous software house not currently a player -- and for most digital SLR owners, since DNG is not the format their cameras actually capture in, it is nothing more than another (unnecessary) intermediate format.
...
However you get your images off the camera and onto the Linux PC, the real work is converting them to a file format usable in image editors like the GIMP, CinePaint, and Photoshop. Here the major player is a free software project called dcraw, which is a small and fast RAW file converter that supports most major camera manufacturers' formats. Developer Dave Coffin puts his own time into supporting new camera models as they come out, and implements changes to the formats as the manufacturers update their own tools and firmware.

Dcraw can be used from the command line, but for a friendlier user experience, check out UFRaw, a GUI tool that uses dcraw for image import, but offers the user a wide array of adjustment tools. UFRaw can be launched as a standalone program, a GIMP plugin, or run non-interactively as a batch processor. It is GPL-licensed and probably available via your Linux distribution's package management system. If not, you can download sources and compile it for yourself; dependencies include the GIMP and libgimp for basic functionality, and LittleCMS and libEXIF for enhanced features.

Using UFRaw to extract the perfect image from your RAW files is an often subjective process that depends on a multitude of factors. UFRaw contains essential RAW workflow features such as color management, exposure control, white balance correction, multiple interpolation algorithms, and fine control over individual channels
http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/
"

-k

[PediaMortal]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your input

I mainly leave my shots as raw's as this is the 'digital negative' which means i can adjust the white balance, contrast, brightness and even exposure 'non-destructively'

I leave most of my shots as raw until i want to convert them to TIFF this means i still have the 'negative,' so not all of my pictures are converted to TIFF, JPEG etc.

The reason i want raw support in MP is not for quality purposes, it is so i don't have to painfully convert all my shots to TIFF and also the shots i may not want.

It would be good to view my shots on the TV using MP and then decide which i want to print, much like a lightbox.

Thought you might like the challenge !

Thanks again

[knutinh]

Originally Posted by PediaMortal

I mainly leave my shots as raw's as this is the 'digital negative' which means i can adjust the white balance, contrast, brightness and even exposure 'non-destructively'

I agree. I use the "raw + jpg" mode as this gives me the both of both worlds, and only a modest increase in memory use/store-time.

http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home...ePageID=342110

"RAW/JPEG Recording
The EOS 30D can record each image as either a RAW image, JPEG image, or both simultaneously.

Like a digital negative, RAW images contain all the unprocessed data from the camera’s sensor. Recorded at 12 bits per pixel, RAW images provide the maximum post processing flexibility. For RAW image handling, Digital Photo Professional software is provided.

JPEG images have compression and Picture Style processing applied and are designed to be more usable straight out of the camera. Depending on the desired image size, different levels of compression (Fine or Normal) can be applied.
"

The reason i want raw support in MP is not for quality purposes, it is so i don't have to painfully convert all my shots to TIFF and also the shots i may not want.

You are aware of batch-tools that will convert any number of files and folders to jpg with a quality similar to that you could get if saving directly to jpg in the camera? Best thing is, it still keeps you "digital negatives" so you can judge the jpgs from your tv and then use the option of tweaking the raw files for any file that you are not pleased with.

http://www.bibblelabs.com/

"Configurable Workflow
Bibble 4 conforms to how you work, so you don't have to change your image processing routine. If you are used to working on one picture at a time in Photoshop, use the Bibble plug-in to bring power of Bibble's RAW conversion into Photoshop. Or, if you process many images at a time, use the Bibble stand-alone application and its powerful batch conversion engine to speed your way through hundreds of images at a time.

Batch Processing
Bibble's batch processing is the key to an efficient workflow. Converting a raw image is as simple as dropping it on a Batch Queue. Each queue is extensively configurable. You can set the output folder, set the image format (TIFF, JPEG, or PNG), set the image size, apply custom image settings, control color profile embedding, and much more. In addition to saving straight images, Batch Queues can move or copy your original files and can create web galleries. All files generated by batching can be renamed with our flexible Renamer. Users of Bibble Pro have the ability to output multiple files from a single batch. Best of all, batch processing happens in the background so you can keep editing while it works.
"

regards
K

[clindh]

I don't think MP should do raw conversion, but there is a solution though that wold support many RAW files.

RAW-files are usually stored in the EXIF file format, and can thus have a embedded JPEG versions inside. And many do, for exampel Nikon cameras creates a JPEG and stores it inside the RAW file automatically - even when you just shooting "NEF". Nikon View and other viewers use these to quickly display the picture, only when you zoom in to 100% the program does a raw conversion. D70(s) and D2X NEF files have full size, basic quality JPGs embedde for example.

Here is a program for extracting these: http://drchung.new21.net/previewextractor/

I don't know about Canon files, but Adobe DNG can have previews as well - which are updated by Camera Raw for example when ýou do changes to an image.

Currently, MediaPortal seems to show the embedded thumbnail if it finds one in raw files. If this was changed slightly so it first looked for larger embedded previews, then we could get support for at least these RAW files in "My Pictures".

That would be awesome and useful; I too prefer not to create a "shadow" JPEG hierarchy of my raw files just for browsing them in Media Portal.