Building a File & data server (1 Viewer)

[AIstudio]

Hi all,
This isnt MP related but I thought a few people on here would know a LOT more than me about this.



My brother wants me to build him a file server in Roterdam. Basically this server will be on 24/7/365.

It should hold a large amount of data that is to be accessed from anywhere on the planet by upto 10 users at any given time.
It is for Cad CATIA and FEA models, drawings and project data. It needs to be secure, backed up and protected.


I was initially thinking of a TYAN mainboard that could take 2 x quad cores and upto 16GB of ram but I dont think it is needed. Maybe one core two quad and plenty of ram.
I would also need to use plenty of storage drives in maybe a raid. These need to be backed up so that data isn't lost.

I am unsure of what OS to put on it as I have never had any experience with WHS etc.


The budget is basically the budget (whatever it costs to build something that wont cost the earth but doesnt compromise the quality of the build) So basically it could cost £1.5k or it could cost £5k.


What would any of you suggest?? or would he (my Brother) be better off just buying an off the shelf solution??

I look forward to any help on this

Regards

Kev

 

[jsimo01]

Why not lease one? Leaseweb & OVH both lease dedicated servers for around £50.00 / EUR60.00 per month, on a 100MBit line, core2duo, 2gb RAM, Linux or Windows Server 2008.

You wouldn't have to worry about hardware upgrades, down the line just swap to a better one!

Just set up FTP and you can be running in a matter of 48hours (2 days to process your order, 30mins to set up basic FTP server)

 

[joz]

Ok, first of all this is not my field of expertise but a quad core for a file server? The disks will be way slower, and will form the bottleneck. I think a dual core will suffice. I would rather consider a (promise) RAID card instead. Maybe putting the drives in RAID-5 if money is an issue, RAID-0 if not. RAID-0 will be less CPU intensive then RAID-5 and therefore makes the extra RAID controller card (maybe) overkill.
How many drives (or how much space) is gonna be used?

If you think RAID-0 is not enough for your purposes then an extra tapedrive backup might suite you. This will mean physical swapping of tapes though, every day or some other regular time period.

p.s.
it's rotterdam... pride for my city

 

[Gixxer]

i have very very limited server experience, i build one few months ago for tvserver, backups, fileserving network etc

i think that quad core is overkill also, you will definately be more restricted by internet access speed, then by hard drive speeds, and finally cpu.

from what i know, get a good raid card and setup a hardware raid (probably raid5, i wouldnt do raid0)

then setup another way of backing up your data. maybe another separate raid and a software that does schedules backups, or even a bit more pro...get a separate NAS, so original data and backup data are totally independent one from the other. in case one computer burns, you have the NAS backup.

 

[AIstudio]

Many thanks for your thoughts here guys.

Yes you are right. Quad core is a little to much for this. At first it looked like this was going to be a workstation/ server but my brother has confirmed today that he will build a workstation for the horsepower needed for his FEA work. It is going to be just a server so a good fast dual core would be good.

@ jsimo01

Why not lease one?

I hadn't actually thought about that option at all. It could be an option but I think my brother wants it to be local to him. The data is sensitive in the field he works. Not MI5 or anything but security sensitive all the same. Many thanks for that thought though

@ Joz Sorry about the typo My spelling is terrible


Gixxer

get a good raid card and setup a hardware raid

I was wondering if to do that. I had a lot of trouble with a motherboard raid controller on my HTPC so I wont go there again lol.
I was thinking of using Flexraid (software raid to an external hard drive located somewhere else. It would be on the network so not next to the server itself. It can run through a web GUI and also do scheduled backups where specified.

As for hard drives , there is around 1.2TB of data now with quite a bit more building all the time.
I was thinking of say 4 1Tb drives in a Raid5. (what usable space will that actually give?)
Can all the drives go in the array or do you need 1 of the 4 to be the redundant drive for swapping to in case of failure?
The external would be a 1Tb drive as it only needs to be as big as the largest partition for the Flexraid parity data.

I am going to do a little more reading now and hopefully get a spec together. I will post it here so that if I pick something useless please shout

Many thanks for the input so far

Regards

Kev

 

[joz]

I was thinking of say 4 1Tb drives in a Raid5. (what usable space will that actually give?)

That would give you 2/3 of the capacity, like always with RAID-5. All the drives can go in the array. If one fails you can just hot-swap a new one in there and the array will rebuild itself (not sure you would have to reboot for that)

I was wondering if to do that. I had a lot of trouble with a motherboard raid controller on my HTPC so I wont go there again lol.
I was thinking of using Flexraid (software raid to an external hard drive located somewhere else. It would be on the network so not next to the server itself. It can run through a web GUI and also do scheduled backups where specified.

This would not be my first choice. This will sincerely limit the HD throughput. Software RAID also has CPU overhead compared to RAID controllers.

 

[Gixxer]

i dont see that as a good option either. i have read too many bad things about software raid.

with my limited knowledge i would do...

hardware raid (with a raidcard) RAID5 ==> 4x1tb
hardware raid RAID1 ==> 2x1tb (for backup)

 

[AIstudio]

joz

This would not be my first choice. This will sincerely limit the HD throughput. Software RAID also has CPU overhead compared to RAID controllers.

Yes i totally agree. I think I would use a raid controller for the main 4 in Raid5. his would then also be backed up to the external drive for additional protection (this would be only run once or twice a week. I think? might even let it do that overnight or something?) Just thinking out loud here.

I have just put together a VERY quick spec. haven't even checked all the compatibility yet.

Here is the spec to start with:

•Mother board: Tyan S5211G2NR i3210, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 ECC/Non-ECC 667/800 MHz, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX £201.25 Inc VAT

•CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo, E8500, Wolfdale Core, S775, 3.16GHz, 1333MHz, 6MB Cache, 9.5x Multiplier, Retail £156.23 Inc VAT

•Memory: 8GB (4x2GB) CorsairXMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 4-4-4-12, DHX £111.14 Inc VAT

•Raid Controller: Highpoint RocketRaid RR3510LF PCI- E 4 Channel SATAII Raid Controller £321.70 Inc VAT

•Hard Drives Raid x 4: 1TB Samsung HE103UJ Spinpoint F1, 24x7,SATA 3Gb/s, 7200 rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ, RAID Class HDD £126.62 Inc VAT x 4 = £506.48

•OS Solid State Disc: OCZSSD2-1SLD120G - 120Gb OCZ Solid Series Solid State Drive (SSD) SATAII £241.44 Inc VAT

•External Hard Drive: LaCie Network Space Ethernet Central Storage 1TB £ approx £150

•GPU: Palit 9500 GT SUPER, PCI-E 2.0(x16), 800MHz GDDR2, GPU 550MHz, 32 Cores, HDTV/ D-Sub/ DL DVI-I £43.67 Inc VAT

•Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech Cordless Desktop EX 100 Spillproof Keyboard & Optical 1000dpi Mouse, Black £19.09 Inc VAT

•PSU: Corsair HX Series PSU ATX, EPS12V, PS/2, Modular Power Supply £189.72 Inc VAT

•Case: £50.00 Inc VAT

•CD: 17" Acer V173Bb EcoDisplay Black LCD Monitor, 1280x1024, 5ms, 300 cd/m², 2000:1, VESA £74.92 Inc VAT


All from Scan . co . uk

Regards

Kev

PS. My brother is In Rotterdam and wonders if it is best to buy from scan or do you know somewhere in Rotterdam Joz??

I will be hopping over in around 3 weeks to build and setup over a weekend (Well that's the plan)

@ Gixxer You beat me to posting there.

i have read too many bad things about software raid

Is it really that bad? I have my Media server backed up using that and I am a little worried about loosing any of that, as it is family things.
Little worried about that now? I have tested it and deleted half my files (after backing them up to another drive first. I then rebuilt the drives with software raid and it worked very well?

Regards

Kev

 

[joz]

Hmm, so why not consider RAID-1 then? It's safer then RAID-5 for sure. Less CPU overhead and similar performance compared to RAID-5 HD htroughput.

As a backup plan I would consider off site storage. You know banks have these drop points? Something like that. What if the place burns down? I think your idea of a Local LAN backup is not that great and actually pretty unusual.

Now about your config, here's my feedback;

•Mother board: Tyan S5211G2NR i3210, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 ECC/Non-ECC 667/800 MHz, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX £201.25 Inc VAT
Is this expensive or what? Crazy high prices, I'm not really into server boards or anything but doesn't let's say a Gigabyte mobo perform as well and is as durable?

•CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo, E8500, Wolfdale Core, S775, 3.16GHz, 1333MHz, 6MB Cache, 9.5x Multiplier, Retail £156.23 Inc VAT
Might consider a 8400, the extra 166MHz won't make that much a difference.

•Memory: 8GB (4x2GB) CorsairXMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 4-4-4-12, DHX £111.14 Inc VAT
Hmm, why so much memory? Wouldn't really need it if it's just file storage but ey memory is cheap. You can already pull off 667MHz memory if you're not overclocking this machine (which I guess you're not) because of the FSB of E8XXX CPUs which is 333MHz. Timings are good and you'll probably won't find mem that much cheaper when 667 compared to 800MHz

•Raid Controller: Highpoint RocketRaid RR3510LF PCI- E 4 Channel SATAII Raid Controller £321.70 Inc VAT
Dunno much about those, can't help you there.

•Hard Drives Raid x 4: 1TB Samsung HE103UJ Spinpoint F1, 24x7,SATA 3Gb/s, 7200 rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ, RAID Class HDD £126.62 Inc VAT x 4 = £506.48
You know I know people who say these drives are unreliable out here. I have 2 of those too (1x1TB and 1x640GB) never had issues though. Heard many failures on hardware.info (dutch hw forum).
Maybe consider WD green for efficient power usage? or WD black for performance?

•OS Solid State Disc: OCZSSD2-1SLD120G - 120Gb OCZ Solid Series Solid State Drive (SSD) SATAII £241.44 Inc VAT
DO NOT BUY THIS PLEASE!!!!
Buy a OCZ vertex instead or a intel M-80 or E-80 server equivalent. The Solid, Core and Apex series have serious small write performance issues!!!!
That's because of the jMicron controller that's been used with those products. The Vertex uses a new one from Idilynx, have one myself, performance quite good although doesn't beat Intel's

•GPU: Palit 9500 GT SUPER, PCI-E 2.0(x16), 800MHz GDDR2, GPU 550MHz, 32 Cores, HDTV/ D-Sub/ DL DVI-I £43.67 Inc VAT
Why not onboard?

•PSU: Corsair HX Series PSU ATX, EPS12V, PS/2, Modular Power Supply £189.72 Inc VAT
How much wattage is this? You could get away with a ~500W. It seems too expensive to me.

About the place to buy in Rotterdam, well it depends. You know, I know a lot about hardware but more about consumer parts, not so specific bussiness parts.
I think alternate is the best offline shop (also online) in the netherlands. Azerty I think is a real good online alternative (also cheaper).
Both have the option to pre assemble the PC but you can also just buy parts.
I have not ever heard of any shop called scan.

About software RAID;

I do not see how this is more unreliable, it will take more CPU usage. The drivers might play a big part in it though! Poor driver support maybe means poor software raid (dunno, just guessing here). Doesn't have to apply to all configs.
There's no such thing really as Software or Hardware RAID. It's all software, just on different levels.
If you use a expansion card or onboard controllers it uses either the northbridge (onboard) to process it or the card which always has some sort of CPU on it, also some cache RAM most of the time.
That's why the last perform better. They are dedicated.

 

[quake2rambo]

Hi.
The S5211G2NR has 2 PCI-X slots on board. Do you really need this ??? I don't think so. PCI-X is NOT PCI-E! The RocketRaid RR3510LF needs an 8x-PCI-E slot. So you need a mainbord with 1x PCI-E 16x for GPU and 1x 16x/8x PCI-E for your Raid-controller.
I would recommand you a board with built-in GPU, DVI and/ore HDMI-out. So you can use the PCI-E slot for your Raid. The money you safe, you can spend in a 3ware-raid-controller.