Channel importing in WebEPG (1 Viewer)

[bounguine]

Some thoughts about TV Mappings in TVServer’s plugin.

1. When choosing a group and pressing Import the plugin imports only unique names.
If I have in Group 1 two lines with Channel 1, which are actually two different channels broadcasted by different provs, I get only one line with Channel 1 in the console inside Group 1.
As a result, one TV-guide is downloaded for all the channel with the name Channel 1.
The problem starts when Channel 1 has different TV-guides (e.g. the provs use different languages, etc.).

Why don’t make the importing procedure like that in XMLTV plugin and import all the lines, which correspond to the group chosen, but not only unique names.
Plus one extra column Provider to distinguish between the provs is really needed.

2. If I choose Group 1 (Channel 1, Channel 2, Channel 3) and then choose Group 2 (Channel 1, Channel 4, Channel 5) , the last group is added below the first one.
If I have chosen Group 1 containing Channel 1 and then I choose Group 2 containing the same Channel 1, I would never see Channel 1 inside Group 2.
At the end I have a mess of channels and groups:
Group 1 – Channel 1
Group 1 – Channel 2
Group 1 – Channel 3
Group 2 – Channel 4
Group 2 – Channel 5

Why don’t make it again like that in XMLTV:
(choosing Group 1):
Group 1 – Channel 1
Group 1 – Channel 2
Group 1 – Channel 3

(choosing Group 1):
Deleting all the channels of Group 1
Group 2 – Channel 1
Group 2 – Channel 4
Group 3 – Channel 5

3. If I rename a channel (scan a new channel), the “old” channel is still in the list and the new channel name (new scanned channel) is added at the bottom of the mess described in (2), which is extremely inconvenient.

Again and again – why don’t make a procedure, which chooses all the lines only with names to be shown in MP and only from the group chosen?

 

[arion_p]

Point 1:
WebEPG maps channels by name while xmltv maps them by id. What this mean in practice is that if you rescan channels, WebEPG will retain your mappings (as long as you don't change their names) whereas xmltv will loose them. Now I don't know why you want to name two different channels using the exact same name but I personally don't find it wise (even if WebEPG could diferentiate between the two you can't know which is which just by the name).

Point 2:
A channel can be in any number of groups. If you have channel 1 in both groups 1 and 2 that doesn't make it have different content. If you have two different channels named identically, see point 1. Groups are not meant to differentiate between identically named channel. They are meant to group channels in smaller sets base on some common aspect (eg all news channels, all kids channels etc).

Point 3:
A result of point 1, but have to investigate further

 

[bounguine]

1. If I have several instances of Channel 1 (one from a Russian provider, another from an English provider, the third from a German provider, etc.) I won’t be able to map Russian, English, German TV-guides separately for each channel.
If I map a Russian TV-Guide first, German Channel 1 will have that Russian TV-guide, which is wrong.
The same thing for Channel 1, which is DVB-S (state channel) and analogue/DVB-T (regional).
The name is the same, but TV-guide is different.
For me, the best way is to use unique ID.

2. My point was to get all the channels of the chosen group (all the IDs – see (1)).
If I choose Group 1, I want to see all channels (IDs) of Group 1 (and not from Group 2, Group 3, etc.)
If I reverse to Group 2, I don’t want too see anymore in the console channels (IDs) from Group 1, 3, etc., but only all the channels from Group 2.
If Channel 1 (name) is in 10 groups, I want to see it 10 times.
If Channel 1 (ID) is in 5 groups, I want to see it 5 times.
You may see it in XMLTV.
Plus I’d love to see an extra column – Provider.

3. If I rename (rescan) and if I choose a group I want to see the actual channel names (without any previous names).

So the question is to change from:
<Channel id="tve1@tve.es" displayName="TVE 1" grabber="ES\www_miguiatv_com.xml" />
To
<Channel id="tve1@tve.es" idChannel="1" grabber="ES\www_miguiatv_com.xml" />

 

[bounguine]

I also tried to write Russian programs in WebEPG not directly to my TV DB but into XMLTV folder.

TVguide.xml is not seen in XMLTV plugin with this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">

I changed to:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1251"?>
<!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">
No success

Then I deleted <!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1251"?>
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">
OK

Then I changed encoding back to utf-8:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">
No success

 

[arion_p]

I also tried to write Russian programs in WebEPG not directly to my TV DB but into XMLTV folder.

TVguide.xml is not seen in XMLTV plugin with this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">

I changed to:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1251"?>
<!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">
No success

Then I deleted <!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1251"?>
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">
OK

Then I changed encoding back to utf-8:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<tv generator-info-name="WebEPG">
No success

This is a known problem. You need to have xmltv.dtd in your xmltv folder.
Regarding the encoding, it is quite possible that in the process of making the above changes to tvguide.xml you changed the encoding of the file from utf-8 to windows-1251 (your codepage), this is why you needed to change the encoding declaration. But normally if webepg outputs in utf-8 and if you have xmtlv.dtd in your xmltv folder you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[bounguine]

I have xmltv.dtd in the folder.
And tvguide.xml made by another app (TVGuru) is uploaded without problems:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1251"?>
<tv generator-info-name="TVGuru">

But tvguide.xml made by WebEPG is not uploaded until I change encoding to "Windows-1251" and delete <!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">

 

[arion_p]

1. If I have several instances of Channel 1 (one from a Russian provider, another from an English provider, the third from a German provider, etc.) I won’t be able to map Russian, English, German TV-guides separately for each channel.
If I map a Russian TV-Guide first, German Channel 1 will have that Russian TV-guide, which is wrong.
The same thing for Channel 1, which is DVB-S (state channel) and analogue/DVB-T (regional).
The name is the same, but TV-guide is different.
For me, the best way is to use unique ID.

Like I said using a unique ID is not a good solution. You still have no way to tell which Channel 1 is the state channel and which is the regional. Naming them accordingly is a better choice i.e. Channel 1 (state) and Channel 1 (regional).

2. My point was to get all the channels of the chosen group (all the IDs – see (1)).
If I choose Group 1, I want to see all channels (IDs) of Group 1 (and not from Group 2, Group 3, etc.)
If I reverse to Group 2, I don’t want too see anymore in the console channels (IDs) from Group 1, 3, etc., but only all the channels from Group 2.
If Channel 1 (name) is in 10 groups, I want to see it 10 times.
If Channel 1 (ID) is in 5 groups, I want to see it 5 times.
You may see it in XMLTV.
Plus I’d love to see an extra column – Provider.

Groups in WebEPG config are meant to allow people that have thousands of channels only import the ones they need. Other than that, all mapping are visible at all times in the list. Your proposed usage does not make much sense, since mapping channels to grabbers is done most probably only once (you don't remap your channels every day now, do you?) and you should map all of the channels you have imported. I don't see how it would help to only see channels in a specific group when mapping, in fact it is almost certain you are going to miss some.
Perhaps you misunderstood the usage of groups in WebEPG configuration. You cannot map different grabbers to the same channel based on which group you have selected. The group selection is there to limit what channels get imported when you press the Import button.

3. If I rename (rescan) and if I choose a group I want to see the actual channel names (without any previous names).

So the question is to change from:
<Channel id="tve1@tve.es" displayName="TVE 1" grabber="ES\www_miguiatv_com.xml" />
To
<Channel id="tve1@tve.es" idChannel="1" grabber="ES\www_miguiatv_com.xml" />

Rescanning and renaming are totally different things. When you rescan you delete all channels and creates new ones based on the scan. The new channels have new IDs. If WebEPG were to use IDs as you suggest, all your existing mappings would be lost because all channel IDs will change after a rescan.
Renaming a channel on the other hand preserves the channel id but since the name changes, the mapping is broken. In this case I believe a button to remove non existent channels is needed (automatically removing them is not a good choice as the rename may be accidental).

 

[bounguine]

Like I said using a unique ID is not a good solution. You still have no way to tell which Channel 1 is the state channel and which is the regional. Naming them accordingly is a better choice i.e. Channel 1 (state) and Channel 1 (regional).

It’s almost impossible to make renaming as I have more than 3 000 channels.
Besides I’ll have to copy and rename icons.
Too much to do!
It’s not that difficult for me, if I sort off a group (I have 20 groups with 20-40 channels (IDs) in each) and see:
- id,
- channel name seen in MP (actual name),
- provider.
After that I would map the online channel name to the chosen ID.
Plus I name some groups with country names (see below) to easily map online channels.
That’s the best solution for me to distinguish between different languages, as I know that, say, Digital+ is Spanish, NTV+ is Russian, etc.

Groups in WebEPG config are meant to allow people that have thousands of channels only import the ones they need. Other than that, all mapping are visible at all times in the list. Your proposed usage does not make much sense, since mapping channels to grabbers is done most probably only once (you don't remap your channels every day now, do you?) and you should map all of the channels you have imported. I don't see how it would help to only see channels in a specific group when mapping, in fact it is almost certain you are going to miss some.
Perhaps you misunderstood the usage of groups in WebEPG configuration. You cannot map different grabbers to the same channel based on which group you have selected. The group selection is there to limit what channels get imported when you press the Import button.

I do understand what I want really.
Please believe me.
These are my reasons.

a) I have a 4x1 Diseqc and an analogue card (DVB-T is planned).
More than 20 groups x about 40 channels in each = about 800 channels (I didn’t count channels and don’t know the exact number).
b) Some groups are named (e.g. “Ukraine”) to make me know what language is used in broadcasting (to correctly map channels in XMLTV and WebEPG and to switch to an appropriate channel in MP when, say, I have a guest from abroad (here – from Ukraine)).
c) I have lots of duplicates with the same name:
* like that I said above with different languages (I sorted them in different genre-groups and “country”-groups),
* with the same language (state/regional) – they may be sorted in one group,
* with the same language (I’m an official subscriber of NTV+/I’m not an official subscriber of TricolorTV) – channels of the first provider are in my groups, channels of the second are not mapped to any group; I don’t want to map online channels to the second provider as I don’t need to get EPG - otherwise if I browse TV guide to preplan recording I can choose by mistake programs broadcasted by the second provider, which I will never record (no subscription) – with DVB EPG or XMLTV I don’t have this problem.
d) MP can’t understand after scanning that channel is not broadcasted anymore (Dreambox can).
I do scan almost each week and I delete channels from DB (no broadcasting) and add new channels to existing groups. If someone asks me, I put channels to a different group or delete them from groups. If I want, I rename channels (I’m a user and there’s an option – so why can’t I?).
Here’s my example of what is now done in WebEPG.

Now some examples.
Legend:
“WebEPG”
- “Channel 4” is only the actual name (=displayName, <>ID),
- one online channel is mapped automatically to the actual name (to ID 1, ID 2, etc. which have this actual name),
- after changing “Channel 4” (for ID 2) to “Channel 4b” I always have to make another mapping for ID 2 using new actual name “Channel 4b”

“XMLTV”
- “Channel 4” is only the actual name (=displayName, <>ID),
- different online channels can be mapped separately to ID 1, ID 2, etc., without caring about actual name,
- after changing “Channel 4” (for ID 2) to “Channel 4b” I don’t have to make another mapping for ID 2 as the online channel is always mapped to ID 2.

Example (a)
I imported all the channels, mapped them and I have a very long list whenever I open WebEPG (800 channels):
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Russian language)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (English language) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Ukrainian language) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Movies – “Channel 2”
Group Movies – “Channel 3”
Group Movies – “Channel 4”
Group Movies – “Channel …”
Group Movies – “Channel 40”
Group Ukraine – “Channel 1” (Ukrainian language) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Ukraine – “Channel 41”
Group Ukraine – “Channel ..”
Group Ukraine – “Channel 80”
Group Russian – “Channel 1” (analogue, regional) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Russian – “Channel 81”
Group Russian – “Channel 82”
Group Russian – “Channel …”
Group Russian – “Channel 119”
Group Russian – “Channel 120”
Group n – “Channel 790”
Group n – “Channel …”
Group n – “Channel 800”

In XMLTV if I choose Group Movies, I have:
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Russian language)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (English language)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Ukrainian language)
Group Movies – “Channel 2”
Group Movies – “Channel 3”
Group Movies – “Channel 4”
Group Movies – “Channel …”
Group Movies – “Channel 40”

I can do correct mapping and I see only 40 channels (all 40 IDs for correct mapping).

Example (b)
b1) I delete Group Movies – “Channel 3”
b2) I renamed Group Movies – “Channel 4” to “Channel 4b” and deleted it from Group Movies and added it to Group Russian.
b3) I renamed Group Russian – “Channel 119” to Group Russian – “Channel 119b”
b4) I made a scanning and found Channel 801 and added it to Group Ukraine.

What I have:

Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Russian language)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (English language) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Ukrainian language) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Movies – “Channel 2”
Group Movies – “Channel 3” >>>>>> (b1) no channel (deleted), but seen in the list, still mapped, needs to be removed manually
Group Movies – “Channel 4” <><><><><> (b2) still in the list although renamed and moved to Group Russian, needs to be remapped, needs to be removed manually
Group Movies – “Channel …”
Group Movies – “Channel 40”
Group Ukraine – “Channel 1” (Ukrainian language) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Ukraine – “Channel 41”
Group Ukraine – “Channel ..”
Group Ukraine – “Channel 80”
Group Russian – “Channel 1” (analogue, regional) <<<<<<< not seen, no correct mapping
Group Russian – “Channel 81”
Group Russian – “Channel 82”
Group Russian – “Channel …”
Group Russian – “Channel 119” ====== (b3) still in the list although renamed, needs to be remapped, needs to be removed manually
Group Russian – “Channel 120”
Group n – “Channel 790”
Group n – “Channel …”
Group n – “Channel 800”
Group Russian – “Channel 4b” <><><><> (b2) the second instance + I must remember the new group name after the channel have been moved to import the new group and get the channel in the list (otherwise it won’t be remapped)
Group Russian – “Channel 119b” ====== (b3) the second instance + I must remember the old group name after the channel have been moved to import the new group and get the channel in the list(otherwise it won’t be remapped)
Group Ukraine – “Channel 801” +++++ (b4) I must remember the new group name after the channel have been moved to import the new group and get the channel in the list (otherwise it won’t be mapped)

In XMLTV:
b1-3)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Russian language)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (English language)
Group Movies – “Channel 1” (Ukrainian language)
Group Movies – “Channel 2”
Group Movies – “Channel 3” -------- not in the list (deleted), no mapping (right)
Group Movies – “Channel 4” -------- not in the list (deleted from the group), still mapped to the ID (right)
Group Movies – “Channel …”
Group Movies – “Channel 40”

+ There’s no need to remap “Channel 4” (e.g. “Canaaaaaaal +”) as “Channel 4b” (“Canal +”) still has mapping to the ID 2. No need to remember the new group name for remapping.
If the channel was renamed by the provider (“Channel 4” (“Canal +”) to “Channel 4b” (“Jetix”)) I can easily found the new group importing each group and always having not more than 40 channels in the list.
Seeing 40 lines:
Group Russian – “Channel 1” (analogue, regional)
Group Russian – “Channel 81”
Group Russian – “Channel 82”
Group Russian – “Channel …”
Group Russian – “Channel 4b” (ID 2, Jetix, NTV+, canal+@ntvplus.ru)
Group Russian – “Channel 119b”

I can find the mistake and make remapping, I assure you.
The same with “Channel 119b” and “Channel 119”

b4) The same here:
Group Ukraine – “Channel 41”
Group Ukraine – “Channel ..”
Group Ukraine – “Channel 80”
Group Ukraine – “Channel 801”

XMLTV logically is done perfectly for that purpose.

Rescanning and renaming are totally different things. When you rescan you delete all channels and creates new ones based on the scan. The new channels have new IDs. If WebEPG were to use IDs as you suggest, all your existing mappings would be lost because all channel IDs will change after a rescan.
Renaming a channel on the other hand preserves the channel id but since the name changes, the mapping is broken. In this case I believe a button to remove non existent channels is needed (automatically removing them is not a good choice as the rename may be accidental).

I don’t clean TV DB before scanning.
I make rescanning every week and still see ID 1, 2, etc.
I see both IDs for channels still broadcasted and not broadcasted (I delete them using TVServer console).
Plus I can see new ID (new channels).
Do you mean that scanning procedure deletes all the IDs?
But then why are there channels not broadcasted?
How can they be added as there was no signal when scanning.
And why then IDs are correctly mapped to the groups?
I just looked dbo.Channel and see the ID-order.
If it were like you said, I would seeL
IDs by Satellite 1
IDs by Satellite 2
IDs by Satellite 3
IDs by Satellite 4

But I see
IDs by Satellite 1
IDs by Satellite 2
IDs by Satellite 3
IDs by Satellite 4
IDs by Satellite 1
IDs by Satellite 2
IDs by Satellite 3
IDs by Satellite 4
IDs by Satellite 1
IDs by Satellite 2
IDs by Satellite 3
IDs by Satellite 4

Which makes me think that db “remembers” every scan made and IDs don’t change during each scan.

And XMLTV still uploads TV guide for all the channels in my 20 groups according to its own ID-mappings.
Even if I drop DB after scanning and use backup.
See no problems at all.

If an ID is removed from DB, there’s no need in mapping.
If displayName is changed by a user, there’s no need to show old displayName and to make a remapping.

Now I can’t do right mapping in WebEPG and I have to browse a long list of more then 800 channels.

I’m not a developer, but I can spend a week or so and make a MS Access project, connect it to the DB and make some sort of sorting.
As I can’t change WebEPG, I would make a trick – any kind sorting in DB, mapping in WebEPG.xml, making an *xml, making mapping in XMLTV. And all through the project.

The discussion a bit reminds me that about previewing in TV groups, which was deleted by developers in latest releases.

 

[arion_p]

I have xmltv.dtd in the folder.
And tvguide.xml made by another app (TVGuru) is uploaded without problems:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1251"?>
<tv generator-info-name="TVGuru">

But tvguide.xml made by WebEPG is not uploaded until I change encoding to "Windows-1251" and delete <!DOCTYPE tv SYSTEM "xmltv.dtd">

I have no clue what may be wrong, but I have never encountered such a problem with XmlTvImporter plugin.
Please provide full logs and original (unaltered) tvguide.xml

 

[bounguine]

I’m greatly sorry, but I can’t reproduce the error.
I spent the whole evening checking different Russian grabbers for you to upload.
Seems that the grabber that threw the error was deleted by my.

The three I’ve sorted off are working perfectly.
Think of me to be a bit crazy, if you wish : )
.
And I still need a piece of advice from you.

Here’re the grabbers I checked out:

www_vsetv_com.xml is working perfectly with Cyrillic letters used for Channel id

tv_mail_ru_SPb.xml and tv_ntv_com.xml are readable only if I use Latin letters, which makes it difficult to read when adding new channels and when mapping.

Can figure out why.