Ongoing HTPC setup with picoPSU and low-noise (1 Viewer)

[pilehave]

Hi!

Wanted to share my ongoing HTPC build, got all the hardware cooked up and is ATM configuring MP.

The only (and worst) problem I have run into so far, is getting the crappy iMon remote to work with my Logitech 885 remote. When I learn the codes it takes like 1 second at every keystroke. Got me going nuts, but now I am using the remote that came with my Cinergy TV-card, and using the supplied software to send keystrokes to MP. Kind of a reroute, but it seems to be working fine so far, hasn't finished doing all the mapping.

Well, enough about the problems, here's my list of hardware:

- Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H - micro-ATX - AMD 780G (rev 1.0, no heat problems so far)
- AMD Athlon X2 4850e / 2.5 GHz BOXED
- GeIL DDR 2 Series Dual Channel Kit - 800 MHz - 2 GB (2 sets, 4 GB in all)
- Samsung SpinPoint M5S HM250JI - 250 GB (2.5" SATA)
- D-Link AirPlus G DWL-G122 USB WLAN dongle
- Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7630A Slot Loading DVDRW Drive
- iMon VFD (including remote with insanely crappy buttons!)
- Terratec Cinergy 2400i DT dual DVB-T tuner, with remote and USB IR, PCI-Express 1x
- PCI-Express x1 riser-card
- 12-25V 120W picoPSU-120-WI-25V
- 19V 120W AC/DC Adapter with 2.5mmx5.5mm Jack Plug

Guess that summons up all the hardware, I also bought a few cables and adapters, since the Gigabyte board wouldn't boot without being supplied with 12V in the onboard plug (in the old days known as a P4 plug). The picoPSU is only 20-pin and the motherboard is 24-pin.

All in all I think that I have spend around 650 £ on hardware so far. I don't think thats so bad, but wanted a fast enough CPU for decoding 1080p if everthing else fails.

The CPU is cooled with the box-cooler but I plan to exchange that with something a bit quieter. Not that the box-cooler is noisy, I just think that there is place for improvement.

I really like all the hardware, except for the iMon remote and the 19V powersupply, since it is using a small fan. This fan is supposed to ooerate only under heavy load, but in reality it's on 95% of the time. As soon as the whole PC is ready I'm gonna measure the powerdraw under full load and check to see if I can use a smaller powersupply.

I am expecting about a 80-85W load under full stress.

The Terratec card works like a charm with MP. The software that comes with the card (some PVR-software), is in my opinion quite useless though, since channelshift and tuning is slow and buggy. In MP it just rules

I have successfully recorded 4 SD-channels while playing back a previous recording. No problem at all.

Software is Windows XP Pro with latest MediaPortal. I run both client and TV-server on the same machine with MySQL and it looks to be a winner. Later on I can share the TV-server with more clients, as I would like to have a small client next to the bedroom-TV.

Getting HW-acelleration of X.264 was pain, Catalyst 8.4 gave me choppy acceleration, 8.6 crashed with BSOD but 8.8 looks really good. Only problem is that on MKV-files with subtitles (embedded) HW-acceleration is disabled since we need VobSub filter to work its magic. no big deal, it all works automatically, and 720p is around 30% CPU. 720p with HW-accelleration is around 8% CPU.

Right now al the hardware is lying on my desktop and waiting for a case. I am halfway finished with my DIY housing in 2/5 mm aluminium. My plan is to finish it and take it to a paintshop and get them to give it some nice color. Perhaps iPod-white

The case will have nothing on the front except a slot for the slot-load drive and a cutout for some acryllic in front of the VFD. perhaps i'll add a small pin-LED for telling if the power is on.

The setup is to be connected to my 42" LG plasma but is at the moment connected to my secondary 22" monitor while work progresses.

My plans for the future is to get this setup finished and then add a DVB-S card and possibly a CI-interface for future scrabled channels on DVB-T scheduled to open next fall (2009). I think that'll be a USB-connected CI-interface which Terratec also makes. I may be forced to get a newer DVB-T card but I'll worry about that in a year or so

I'll snap some photos of the whole lot tonight or tomorrow, and I'll try get a picture of the case at the same time.

Any questions about the setup are welcomed, but check in again tomorrow to get some pictures!

Regards, Mikkel

 

[pilehave]

OK, I got some images of the hardware, but you have to wait for pictures of the housing

(OMG what a mess!)

Can't wait to get rid of all the wires. But will have to finish the housing. I think I'll get some work going this weekend.

I'm going with the Monochrome skin btw.

 

[SwingSultan]

ive heared that there can be serious issues with using a pico psu and standard pc hardware. since i am lurking around hardware forums for quite some time now i have heared of some weird an for normal users uncommon probelems and experienced some of them myself. i do not have any first hand experience myself with what i am about to describe nor am i some of expert when it comes to electronis but i had my share of experiance with people that do so. here is what i have heared: intel and amd desktop and notebook cpus have a set of power saving features. amd calls it cool and quiet and intel calls it enhanced intel speed step (short eist). the basic principles of those features are the same. they reduce clock and especially the cpu voltage in order to reduce the powerconsumption of the cpu which results in cooler cpu temperatures and therefore if a cpu fan management is turned on in a quieter pc. the problem with those features is that the pico psu can not handle the sudden increase or decrease of powerconsumption even if the avidable power by the pico psu is enough due to the fact that the powersaving features of modern desktop and notebook cpus work within the fraction of a second. some pico psus can not handle that sudden difference in power consumption. at least that is what i have heared. since intel who introduced that feature for desktop computing with the pentium 4 which was quite heater and intel has quite a strong word in the atx norm community since they are the largest manufaturer of cpus known to man that makes sense. also modern atx psus are often too big for the average computer. it of course depends on which component sucks on which voltge line and if there are different lines for different components. the bottom line is that regular atx psus have a hell lot of reserves and complexity (well circuts that are designed for that kind of stress) to buffer those kind of sudden differences in power cunsumption than pico psus. so if you are experiencing any kind of unexplainable instability with your htpc (crashes under load, otherwise crashes that can not be explained because the software used has no known incompatibility issues etc.) i would try to disable cool and quiet or try another psu. problems with your powersupply doesnt have to manifest themselves abrupt and all of a sudden which i know from experiance so keep that in mind.

you can recalculate your estimates about the stress power consumption to about 100w or so. the cpu has a tdp of 65w (there is always a tolerance to ensure a stable working pc etc) the motherboard should suck at least 15w (tdp of the chipset if it isnt higher. you can add at least 10w for external gigabit lan controllers etc and the rest of the board). thats at least the the tdp of the chipset under full load (i think! the intel p45 chipset has a tpd of about 25w and the amd 780g is supposed to be considerably below that which would justify the 15w estimate). i estimate round about 3-10w for the tv card (had a tv card once and estimating the temperature on the tuner and chip compared to measurements i have read taken directly on pci slot would probably proof me right). adding the average consumption of a 2,5" hadd which is about 2-4w (idle/stress).

there are tons of other external psus having a power output of 120w (at least i havent ever seen one that had the ecessity of an additional fan) that operate fanless. so that would give you a pointer of how to reduce noise.

the other thing is the cpu fan. look for some products made by a company named scyte. they have various products with the focus on having a small height. depending on your expectations for the selfmade case you should be able to build a rather flat htpc. you should have in mind that there has to be some airflow in your case and that most low heigt cpu coolers use a traditional airflow direction (meaning that the fan pushes air towards the mainbord cpu instead of the nowdays more commen tower constructions that push the air towards the atx psu or the blowhole at the back of the atx case in case of a regular tower pc). in that case you should either make some experiments, buy a low height tower cooler or at least place a air intake above the cpu traditional airflow cooler. the experimantal part can be explained with the fact that most heatpipe cpu cooler construction can cool a 45w cpu with a certain airflow in the case depending on the quantity and quality of the air that is sucked through. that means that you have a certain exchange of air in every critical part of the pc. a good example for that is the mac mini (except for the g4 based ones that have a fault in the cpu heat sink design which can cause problems because of problems due to a dust blocked heatsink) which can survive with only one fan that coold the cpu, chipset (ie northbridge) and hdd. if you have any illusions about getting your hands on a quiet radial fan which can suck a sufficient amount of air through the case or cpu heatsink (if you for example want to place it above the cpu heatsinkt to suck out the warm air from the haetsink outside the case in order to build a rather low profile htpc). you are better off choosing a low profile tower based cpu heatsink using one or two 80mm fans (a common man can get his hands on a variaty of models with rather impressive specs concernign airflow and noise like papst, noctua or sharkoon). of the recommended bunch i recommend papst because even though the actual noise/airflow ratio is not quite as good as the one of the noctua models but when it comes to terms of abraision a papst fan will probably serve your expectations of a quiet and powerfil fan better than the other two manufacturers. it is also better to keep the airflow simple and in the drection of the fan meaning that you have at least intake holes at the front of tha case where you dont want to have any fans at all due to the distance and dimming material at the front of the case and one or two at the back (preferably at the cpu since its the largest source of heat) to ensure the best and most directed airflow in your case (since airflow easily scatters and becomes seriously less evective depending on how many obsticles it has to overcome). the best way here is to go in a straight line.

well those are just my 2cents i can tell you at 5am but i hope i could help you. i dont want to freak you out about the psu since it has about a 20% buffer in power consumption (concerning the unrealistic fact that really every single component is fully stressed and i mean really EVERYTHING). regarding the cooling concepts there are three ways you can go. building ha higher and bigger case with space for a bigger thermal margain and 80mm fans at the back and/or front, drilling a hole above the cpu fan to ensure a good air intake (you can play aroud there with concepts like letting the fan suck the warm air out of the case) and choosing a tower based heatsink which would basically leed back to option one which means sucking the air from the front to the back. either way i think that i have given you some valuable pointer on how to put a satifying finish to your project which gives me the satisfaction of not being that wrong on wanting to become one of those anal german engeneers who seek that kind of perfection which my made beloved home what it is today (just for the record i dont have some sort of nationalist idea in my head which could be considered dangerous on any level but i do take some sort of pride where i came from and the engeneering legacy i am hopefully about to reinforce).

furthermore any kind of grammaticalliy challenged expression or spelling can be tolerated regardign the fact that it is 5 am and considering that i am on holidays and need some space from the pressure of studying...well long story short i had a few drinks and i want to see you making a reasonable poit at that state of mind aöso regarding that engeneering expressions and vocabulary isnt the regular stuff you get tought at school

 

[pilehave]

Well. tanks for the (very long) reply. Now, the CPU's TDP is not 65W, but 45W. So far I have had no problems with either Cool & Quiet or any suspend/resume functionality.

The picuPSU have been used in quite a big builds in both normal PC's and also in CarPC's, where the picuPSU is one of the only PSU's that are build to take the extra peak that normally is involved when starting a car-engive (extremely high power).

I doubt there's gonna bee any problems with my build but of course I'll write here if there is

 

[SwingSultan]

right i got confused with the 65w of regular athlon x2 cpus. regarding the pico psu i think that also depends on the external psu and internal psu combination or like normal atx psus its simply a matter of quality. i just wanted to point out potential error sources to the best of my knowledge but im happy for you that your pc is working fine and meets your needs except for the probably annoying 40mm fan in the external psu.

but i hope i could give you some pointers for your future case