PCI Dual Hybrid HDTV + Hardware encoder for H264 Needed (1 Viewer)

[FenMP]

Hi there,
Im going to try to be as specific as possible .

Im searching for a TVCard with this requirements:

- MUST HAVE/BE/DO :

• PCI (no PCIe. It would mean buying a whole new HTPC)
• 2x DVB-T (i dont care for analogue TV).
• Hardware Encoding (to keep the CPU as free as possible) at least MPEG4
• Good Stability
• Able to do HDTV for the near future.

- I would apreciate if "it comes with"/"its capable of" :

• Running on Windows 7
• Hardware Encoding H264

The system I have (its my parents, and actually this is for them) is :

• Dual Core Opteron 2 Ghz
• 2x 1GB DDR400 Ram
• 1x 1TB HDD
• 1x 300GB HDD
• 1x 250GB HDD
• Asrock 939A8X-M (probably upgraded with a better AGP Motherboard I have an "MSI neo2 platinum" TOP NOTCH!!)
• GeForce 6200 - 256MB
• Dual Boot XP and 7 without problems.

I have found this card recommended BGT3595 but unfortunately its PCIe and changing the whole setup just for a PCIe card its out of the way. But browsing BlackGold's web I've found this BGT3500 which I like and seems similar to the BT3895 except for the PCIe. I couldn't find the Recommended hardware from Team MediaPortal (FlyTV Express X1 MST T2A2M) anywhere (online shops, shops around, ebay) but I tried to find the PCI version mainly. I didnt bother with FireDTV nor FloppyDTV (as I didnt like them too much), but if you guys strongly recommend it, then I would give it a serious thought.

Please any advice would be very appreciated. I would summarize what I need now. Im looking for a PCI DVB-T Dual tunner card with MPEG4 Hardware Encoding capabilities and able to run with MP mainly in windows 7 but I could hold on for while on XP. As much stable as possible.

I want to thank you all for taking the time to read this. And moreover to the ones who take the time to answer me. Thank you all. By the way congrats to the Team Mediaportal's web designer for this very intuitive GUI.

​

 

[sdf]

If you don't need analog tv, why care about hardware encoding?
For dvb-t, there's no encoding.
You have to put the card in a system that supports h264 hardware encoding.
Bye,
sdf

Sorry, h264 hardware (de)coding

 

[Paranoid Delusion]

GeForce 6200 - 256MB

That is the main stumbling block, it will never support HD playback of any kind

Sapphire HD 4650 512MB DDR2 Dual DVI TV Out AGP Graphics Card - Ebuyer or something similar may do the trick, if the pc's power supply is up to it of course, but like everything, technology has moved on, so you could be wasting your money for little or no improvement, as the rest of the system is way behind the GPU's performance.

 

[FenMP]

Hi sdf,
first of all thank you for your reply. (As you know people read the posts, only some want to reply, but only a few finally does it)

The reason why I wanted hardware encoding was for recording (but I see now that I might be wrong about it!!!).

This is the way I see it:

1. You receive the DVB-T signal in "whatever format" and you want to save it to the HDD (record the tv).
2. You want to record it either as MPEG4 (DivX or Xvid) or H264, but the CPU needs too much processing power to do it.
3. But if you have a hardware encoder that supports those formats then you might free some CPU cycles.

Examples of what I think. ATTENTION!!! THIS NUMBERS ARE NOT REAL FIGURES they are just rough numbers of how I think the system works. (I dont want to create any misunderstandings). So please correct me if Im wrong and point me in the right direction towards what Im looking for, Thanks

Harware 	Recording 	RECORDING DVB-T		RECORDING HDTV
Encoder		Format		   Usage		    Usage
				TV Card	   CPU		TV Card	CPU
NO		MPEG-4		40%	   40%		  55%	 75%
NO		H.264		40%	   70%		  55%	110%

MPEG-4		MPEG-4		80%	    5%		 100%	 12%
MPEG-4		H.264		40%	   70%		  55%	110%

H.264		MPEG-4		40%	   40%		  55%	 75%
H.264		H.264		80%	    5%		 100%	 15%

Both		MPEG-4		60%	    3%		  80%	  8%
Both		H.264		70%	    5%		  99% 	 10%

As you can see in the table before, the more quality the signal has the more resources it requires. If you dont have an encoder most of the work lays on the CPU. If you have an encoder that supports the format you are recording, the encoding runs on the card instead of the CPU. I didnt think about "you" being able to decode the DVB-T signal on the card was the reason why you would need a hardware encoder, as I thought all TVCards are harware DEcoders, but only some of them are hardware ENcoders. Plus, nowadays, you can (if you are lucky) decode some HD sources through the GPU with ATI "whatever the name it is" and NVIDIA Purevideo.

But please, any info you can give me, it would be appreciate it, specially regarding to what card you guys would recommend me.

Thanks Paranoid Delusion, I DO own an ATI x1950 PRO 512 (ITS A BEAST!!!) but I was planning on selling it and not to install it on my parents HTPC, plus, as you well said, I DO NEED a better power supply (as the one that was powering this card, its now powering my new system with a HD4830) (60$ cost me about a year ago, NEW ).
I thought it was only required 10GB/s of bandwidth on the card (which my version of 6200 has it. I know, I know, thats the maximum the card does, and its the minimum required, but I can always give it a bump and overclock it a bit (lets say to get 12GB/s) Which could help. It does have 3 Sata HDD/s and the PC its mainly going to be used for standard DVB-T, but eventually It would be used for HDTV. Isnt there a TVCard that can process the whole HDTV and free the CPU and GPU?? (im not saying free them both 100% each but, hey maybe free them 40% so they run at 60% or something.) Maybe using some codecs more balanced that doesnt depend so much on the GPU nor the CPU but equally both of them, I dont know.

Thanks to all, again

One last thing. Nobody have told what you guys think about that TVCard. The BG3500.

PS: And another one. I have read in a few places that the 6200 was ok for an HTPC. and a HD2400 recommended. Basically graphic cards with a very low processing power and very low bandwidth. But thats just what I read!!

 

[wolfi_b]

AW: PCI Dual Hybrid HDTV + Hardware encoder for H264 Needed

No, you are wrong. The DVB-T card receives MPEG2 or H264 and this is stored direktly on HDD when recording (no encoding/decoding needed).
Encoders are only needed for analog tv because the analog signal needes to get encoded in MPEG2.
The DVB-cards have no encoders or decoders!
Decoding is always done bei GPU or CPU!

 

[Paranoid Delusion]

PS: And another one. I have read in a few places that the 6200 was ok for an HTPC. and a HD2400 recommended. Basically graphic cards with a very low processing power and very low bandwidth. But thats just what I read!!

Last time we tested graphics cards, it took a 6600gt to decode 1080 material smoothly and a reasonable processor.

I do not know of any TV card that can do mpeg4\h.264 encoding on the fly, these are all software based conversions, so you would need pretty powerful processor for that.

Yes there are chips out there that can do the dedicated converting, but not built into any TV card that has been mentioned on this forum, pretty sure I would have heard about it

All recording is done in ts format, whether that contains mpeg2\h.264 video and of course a variety of soundtacks that may be broadcast

.

 

[FenMP]

Re: AW: PCI Dual Hybrid HDTV + Hardware encoder for H264 Needed

No, you are wrong. The DVB-T card receives MPEG2 or H264 and this is stored direktly on HDD when recording (no encoding/decoding needed).
Encoders are only needed for analog tv because the analog signal needes to get encoded in MPEG2.
The DVB-cards have no encoders or decoders!
Decoding is always done bei GPU or CPU!

Well, that was one of my thoughts! I thought that digitally the DVB-T was passing through the TVCard to the CPU with no need converting the signal/data. But I thought it was a little bit far fetch!!! That's the reason why I thought the other theory was closer to the truth. Thanks for clarify that and for your quick reply.

Yes there are chips out there that can do the dedicated converting, but not built into any TV card that has been mentioned on this forum, pretty sure I would have heard about it

So where can I get those chips (are they like the old MPEG decoder cards to watch DVDs when they first came out?


Basically, whats the best I can do with the system I have:

• PCI + AGP 939 MotherBoard
• Dual Core Opteron 2Ghz (maybe overclocking it?)
• 2 GB DDR 400 Ram (I could upgrade it to 3 GB but I really want to sell it, I have a friend interested, but I havent offer it yet to him)
• Nvidia 6200 256 MB (10GB/s bandwidth, I can overclock it too)
  OR
• ATI x1950 Pro 512MB (44.16GB/s Can overclok a bit but not worth it!)

Windows 7 (strip off Aero, and crap that slows it down (supposed to run faster than XP)
XP.
Linux.

Special drivers? (I have seen that my graphics card gets a 2.0 score on win7, but some people (ngo, videodrivers, one of those webs I cant remember but I wrote down somewhere) were able to tweak the drivers and get the score up to 3.0 (without overclocking).

Basically I dont want to spend more money (I would If I have to, but I want to use that PC, not buying a new one). I dont want to put the best components I have like the ATI x1950 If I can. For what I know in Spain we only have one HD channel at the moment and If I can deal with it for 1 year or so, maybe I could update the whole system by them.
I have to say that I can play games like mass effect, crysis and modern warfare 1 (i didnt try MW2 on that rig) on that system with that card. It use to be my main PC.
Right now I own a Pinnacle PCTV - 340e USB thats able to run with one DVB-T channel or one analogue. But it tends to crash in any of my systems after some time "30 minutes - 3 hours". Specially on windows 7.

So ... IDEAS ... anyone??? Im whiling to try things.

• Setup the HTPC differently.
• Setup windows differently. Win7 or XP
• Tweak the registry.
• Tweak the .inf of the drivers.
• Install an add-on PCI card with only hardware encoding (if it isnt too expensive).
• Install my beauty ATI x1950 Pro as a last option.
• Install linux if its better.
• Stand on one foot while I plug my thumb toe to the wall while I try to recite the binary code coming from the antenna .

I DO want the system to work, as they dont have to buy a new one. As the system doesnt have to go to a dark room and get cover by dust. As They will not need to learn how to setup every single piece of equipment (VCR, DVR, DVB-T Receiver, Sat. Receiver, Cable, TV tuner ... etc) from every manufacturer out there every year. You know, windows GUI its always the same, not many changes from XP to windows 7. They are small changes. Not many changes on mediaportal GUI vs MediaCenter. And I know, I know, you would say there are many changes between mediaportal and mediacenter, but really, internally there are, and if you change the skin it my look completely different, but the options are the same most of the time. But compare my JVC VCR, my Sony DVR, my Samsung TV, my Philips Sat receiver and my Boston DTT receiver and ... you can see how huge the differences are. Basically my parents grow old and they have more and more problems learning how to set every new piece of equipment. But lately they have been learning how to use windows (slooooow and loooooong process) and I think its easier than to program the sony DVR we have. But none of those devices have DVB-T, except for the samsung TV and of course the DTT Reciever. And now they have to learn how use them from scratch?? NO WAY!!! So thats the main reason why I want them to have the HTPC up and running. I travel a lot and I can still setup the system remotely if I need to, but I CANT do it with the VCR, TV, or the receivers. Its a win/win situation with the HTPC. Plus, it makes my mum happy to get rid of all those "evil devices" (VCR, DVR, DTT, etc) and have a nice and tidy PC and the TV .

One more question though, If I have a DVB-T reciever that is not HDTV, can still watch HDTV channels at lower quality?? or it would be a black screen (like it happens with my Sat provider when I get to a HDSat channel)???

Well, thanks again. And dont forget, if you are new to this post and know anything about the BG3500 please comment.

​

PS: I wonder if I can re-edit my first post and put a summarize version of all the conclusions in this post before the rest of the original post. So anyone that arrives here searching for answers, doesnt need to read the whole post but just the condensed version at the beginning (with the permission of all of you, of course )

 

[Paranoid Delusion]

The 6200 should work for a standard install, just do not play any HD material, DVB-T TV should work fine

Even the ATI card is not really designed for HD, just gaming.

One more question though, If I have a DVB-T reciever that is not HDTV, can still watch HDTV channels at lower quality?? or it would be a black screen (like it happens with my Sat provider when I get to a HDSat channel)???

Black screen

if you are new to this post and know anything about the BG3500 please comment.

The only thing I know about BlackGold cards is now you see them, and then you don't, like as in the original company\website dissappeared.

You would be better off with a hauppauge dual dvb-t tuner like the 2200 pci-e or T500 pci, both work with MCE and MP.

 

[FenMP]

The 6200 should work for a standard install, just do not play any HD material, DVB-T TV should work fine

Even the ATI card is not really designed for HD, just gaming.

I understand the x1950 Pro is for mainly gaming, but ... I think... I recall... I read somewhere that with the right settings, drivers, codecs, players etc, I could benefit for HD. Even if it wasnt really designed for it. But I will have to check again for that info.

One more question though, If I have a DVB-T reciever that is not HDTV, can still watch HDTV channels at lower quality?? or it would be a black screen (like it happens with my Sat provider when I get to a HDSat channel)???

Black screen

I thought so !!!

if you are new to this post and know anything about the BG3500 please comment.

The only thing I know about BlackGold cards is now you see them, and then you don't, like as in the original company\website dissappeared.

You would be better off with a hauppauge dual dvb-t tuner like the 2200 pci-e or T500 pci, both work with MCE and MP.

Well, im checking around prices for the T-500. Although Ive seen there are 3 cards listed on hauppauge:

1. T-500 (99xxx)
2. TD-500 (68xxx)
3. TD-500 (84xxx)

Regarding drivers, manuals, etc. So Im guessing you meant the first one but just double checking.

I know that the key for all of this is ... READ READ READ. But unfortunately, its hard for me as Im compiling a big report about PhysX that I want to publish in a couple of websites. Im reading a lot about it, and about MCE remotes, which I seem to control enough now to be able to tell my remote to do whatever I want to ... yeeeeey!!!! And I want to publish that info too, so any lost souls like me would not need to browse thousands of pages to find the info.
And a few other little projects I enumerate all of them:

• Setting right an HTPC for DVB-T and HDTV in the near future (for my parents to record their favorite shows too).
• All about PhysX (with an ageia card, and now going to test it with a GeForce, to "reinforce" the forum of ATI + PhysX of GenL.
• Settings and scripts to have full control of MCE and Non MCE remotes (without needing Intelliremote nor Girder. And ITS WORKING!!!)
• Being able to expand the USB ports on my PC using ASUS "USB/MIR" add-on boards.
• Setting and IrdA Transmitter to send signals to other devices like if the PC was a bunch of remotes. (that way, when my father press on button on the MCE remote, the MediaPortal starts, then the TV and the sound system too at the same time. For example)
• Setting two wifi routers to run under one ADSL (so I increase the wifi Range and the amount of PCs connected to the net).
• Setting the wiimote on the PC, so they can point and click on the screen just by pointing the wiimote and pressing A, B, select or Star.
• Making a wifi "Arcade Pad/Joystick" out of spare parts from an "Arcade Joystick", a wooden log and a wireless game pad for PC with some tools and one of those vinyl stickers (custom made. With some drawings of Pac-Man, Bubble Booble, GnG, and so on.).
• Similar to the one before. A digital racing wheel with my old analog racing wheel (<--- Its pretty easy, but I want to make it with force feedback, which could be quite challenge).
• Modding a couple of laptops and an external HDD.

So basically all of those are the ongoing projects and they require a lot of reading. Im kind of overwhelmed, as I have to do all of that and work (plus Im studying French, e-commerce, Php, Coldfusion, and Java. While Im refreshing my C++ and BASIC programming knowledge from 10 years ago or so ).
So because of all that time hungry tasks Im doing right now, and because of greatly helpful help, I have to say:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH MATE

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You all have been very helpful specially you, Paranoid Delusion. For your time and answers.

PS: Im planning on document most of those projects and I can post the links to those webs if you guys want me to. (I know most of them are non related to these forums. But knowledge its always good, isnt it?)