Router problem (1 Viewer)

[DalaNorth]

Hi all,

I recently switched to a local swedish ISP and I'm having trouble getting my router to work. I first had a Belkin F5D7230-4 54G router, but as this router didn't seem to work, I soon switched to another model. (Philips SNK5600).

The problem is that when I connect the router to the fiber converter on the wall, the router kind of just hangs. I can no longer access it through the web interface (neither wired nor wireless) and it doesn't route anything. I can't even detect the wireless signal anymore. The router works absolutely splendid until I connect it to the internet. Up until then, I can configure it and connect to it both wired and wireless.

I can sometimes briefly access the router for a couple of seconds after connecting it to the net, but usually it dies almost immediately. There is nothing wrong with the router, since it works at my friend's house and he has the same ISP. However, the net also works fine if I skip the router and connect a computer directly to the fiber converter. I have even done some stresstesting, and both the router and the "internet" if you will, are working just fine.

So why, oh why doesn't my router work with my connection? I tried sniffing using WireShark, but didn't detect any strange packets that could kill my router. (There were however some packets I didn't expect to see and didn't see at my friends house, but I don't know...)

Could it be a faulty converter after all? Perhaps the output has some sort of strange characteristic that the router can't handle but a network card can? Ah, I don't know I'm all out of answers...

I have contacted the ISP of course and after some persuading that the router IS in fact fine, they said that they would file an error report and that means (according to the contract) that they will take a look at it within "reasonable time".

Knowing the intelligent and competent people at MediaPortal, I figured that I might get my answer quicker here

So what do you think? Should I try a third router? Maybe a model with persistent logging so I can find out why in the h-l the router keeps crashing on me... Should I just keep waiting? Is there anything else I can do?

Oh, well... I guess you're bored by now. Grateful for any input!

Regards
DalaNorth

 

[dm15644]

Have you checked your security settings, like MAC filter etc.?

/jayrock

 

[DalaNorth]

Yes, I have messed with them a lot too.

To fully explain just how strange this problem is, I will tell you what I have done as an intermedate solution.

Next to the fiber converter, I have placed a computer with two network adapters (wired). I have connected one of the network cards to the fiber converter and the outer to the wan/modem port on my router. On the computer I have Windows XP with internet connection sharing enabled. I set the router to "dynamic IP" and everything is working fine. I can connect to the router wirelessly from both my workstation and my HTPC and easily use the internet. If I unplug the cable between the router and the computer from the cmputer and plug it directly into the fiber converter, the router immediately loses connection with both my wirelessly connected computers and it is impossible to reconnect. It is also impossible to connect through one of the LAN ports on the router. It doesn't help if I restart the router. It also doesn't work to put the cables back the way they were until it is rebooted connected that way. Why does it work when I go through the computer, but not otherwise? I suspect that the converter needs to be replaced...

Is there any way that the converter could be outputting too much power through the ethernet cable or something? Are network cards more capable of handling such anomalies than simple cheap routers?

Whatever, I just hope the ISP tech guy shows up soon... I don't want to have a computer that doesn't do anything useful, takes up a lot of space in the hallway and must be turned on all the time, just because it works...

Regards
DalaNorth

 

[dm15644]

It's really hard to analyze your problem remotely, so I have no great advice for you. But I was wondering what you mean when you write you set your router to "dynamic IP". Do you mean the the router shall obtain an IP adress from a DHCP? Where is that DHCP located?

Also, in the past I have seen the Ethernet auto configuration feature to cause a lot of problems. I would suggest that you set all your ethernet ports to a fixed value. Start with "10 MBit half duplex" , then switch to full duplex and eventually increase the bit rate.

Also, if possible try to set all you devices to fixed IP adresses.

Hope this helps

/jayrock

 

[DalaNorth]

Hello.

The router must be set to dynamic IP when connected to the computer using ICS. ICS on the host machine (my computer that I have between the converter and the router)has a DHCP server, which assigns local IP's starting with 192.168.0.89 to connected devices. (So my router gets 192.168.0.89 as IP)

I havent tried changing the bitrate, so I'll try that. Could it be that the computer reduces the bitrate to one that the router can handle, but when I connect the router directly to the converter, the bitrate is too high? But how is it then possible to connect the computer directly to the converter, bypassing the router? I can't change the bitrate on the router and since the router stops transmitting the wireless network ID when connected to the converter I'm screwed with the current router...

Oh btw, thanks for your help!



Regards
DalaNorth

 

[dm15644]

Hello.
I havent tried changing the bitrate, so I'll try that. Could it be that the computer reduces the bitrate to one that the router can handle, but when I connect the router directly to the converter, the bitrate is too high? But how is it then possible to connect the computer directly to the converter, bypassing the router? I can't change the bitrate on the router and since the router stops transmitting the wireless network ID when connected to the converter I'm screwed with the current router...

Maybe I didn't explain enough which setting I meant. Open the properties tab of your network card in Control Panel. Under Advanced I have a setting called "Speed & Duplex", should be the same or similar on your machine. Here's where you find the setting I was referring to. Try to find something similar for the router and the converter box. I bet it's set to "auto".

When it's set to "auto" the two network cards will negotiate the fastest connection when the connection is established. Unfortunately many implementaitons of this feature are buggy, so they don't work. Even worse, there's no standardises fall back. You cound end up with one interface set to 100 Mbit full duplex and the other one 10 Mbit half duplex, which will obviously not work. If the implementations on both ends are of low quality, this error can cause any result (like, your box being dead).

Again, I'm not saying that this is the definite cause, but I've seen these kind of errors often enough. It fits your observation that it does not work *only* if you connect your router to the converter, but does work if the PC is in between. Seems like the router and the converter don't manage to configure the link, but the PC in between has better interface cards, recognizes the situation and goes into proper fallback.

Hope this is understandable. It's all due to things not being properly standardized but only being based on recommendations.

Good luck

/jayrock

 

[DalaNorth]

Hello! Thought I'd give you a little update on what happened with this.

The tech guy from my ISP finally showed up and spent approximately one and a half hours trying to get this to work. Among other things, he tried changing the speed and duplex of the converter, but couldn't find a setting or specification for this on the router, so no luck there. He also tried various other settings and finally even tried replacing the converter, but no luck.

He finally basically just gave up and said "you should have just bought a NetGear router, I've never had any problems with them.". So, as soon as he left I replaced the router for the second time, this time buying a Netgear WGR614. Presto! It worked! I still don't know what the problem was, but obviously the two routers I previously tried were not compatible with that exact converter model.

I had tried the router successfully at my parents place and they have the same ISP, but apparently (according to the tech guy) since they live in an apartment and I live in a house, the converter models aren't exactly the same.

Anyway. Problem solved.

Conclusion: Belkin F5D7230-4 and Philips SNK5600 routers don't work with all types of fiber converters...

Thanks anyway

Regards
DalaNorth

 

[dm15644]

Good to hear that you finally got it solved!

/jayrock

 

[infinite.loop]

I got sick of these SoHo routers.

now i am using an old P2 with monowall running on it.
It is up since 6 months now