Skinning contest (1 Viewer)

Albert

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  • February 18, 2008
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    The time has come! We start our skinning competition for MediaPortal 2. Everyone can take part, either alone or in a group.
    Those are the conditions:

    - The outcome has to be either a skin (based on the navigation concept which is currently implemented in MP2) or a new navigation concept (maybe with a skin prototype or some drawings).
    - You can ask questions if something is not clear but before doing so, you have to look into our Wiki to make sure the question is not already answered there.
    - The best possible outcome would be a nice, complete and coherent navigation concept together with a skin which covers almost all screens that are currently implemented in the default skin. That skin should also look good for plugins that only provide skin files for the default skin.
    - Communication during the competition should be done via our MP 2 development forums.
    - The competition will end at November, 26th.


    To create a new „skin“, in this context it is enough to just create own template files (master.xaml, master_menu.xaml, master_dialog.xaml) together with one or two well-looking themes. The new skin should be contained in its own plugin. That plugin might also contain localization resources, pictures and/or code in dlls.

    To take part, it is necessary to have a current, runnable instance of MediaPortal 2. You should check out the sources from our SVN trunk and build them with Visual Studio 2008. That way, it is easy to look into the code of the SkinEngine controls, if necessary. It is also possible to work without Visual Studio 2008 and compile an MP2 instance via the build commands in the Build directory.

    Our Wiki describes how it works to create plugins and skins for MP2.

    We're happy to see preliminary results, either as complete MP2 plugins or as a screenshot here in this thread.

    Have fun!
     

    Spragleknas

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  • December 21, 2005
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    Come on people - get cooking! :D

    Seriously, I am really looking forward to see what can come out of this, considering the strength of the skin engine and the "lack of limitations" in general!
     

    pilehave

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    I think you should focus on concept-art as base for the new skin. MP2 is in many ways not usable as base for skinning.

    :sorry:

    [edit]My point is, that if nobody knows which views are implemented (coverflow anyone?) or listviews with the possibility to grow/shrink the thumbnail on the selected item, then the skin will be limited to the views we have today.

    For instance, I would like to see a wall-view, where the selected thumb is always in the middle, and the wall with covers moves behind it.

    And yes, I did test out MP2 a few days ago, and I missed both context-menus, OSDs, hidden menus etc. So, how would I know what is possible?
     

    Albert

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    AW: Re: Skinning contest

    I think you should focus on concept-art as base for the new skin. MP2 is in many ways not usable as base for skinning.

    :sorry:

    [edit]My point is, that if nobody knows which views are implemented (coverflow anyone?) or listviews with the possibility to grow/shrink the thumbnail on the selected item, then the skin will be limited to the views we have today.

    For instance, I would like to see a wall-view, where the selected thumb is always in the middle, and the wall with covers moves behind it.

    And yes, I did test out MP2 a few days ago, and I missed both context-menus, OSDs, hidden menus etc. So, how would I know what is possible?

    I think you're searching at the wrong abstraction layer. MP2 doesn't provide standard controls like OSD menus or menus at all. MP2 is based on MPF which basically provides controls like layout containers, lists, buttons, borders etc. That means, if you need an OSD - create one.
    Given the flexibility and easiness of templating, that is a very small task and makes it possible to create very well looking new components.

    If you don't want to dive so deep into MPF designing/programming, you can still use the control templates which are already defined. But - as you said, the set of controls is not complete yet.
    That's one of the reasons we do this contest: To get good ideas of how new skins could look, how new controls could work etc. If we already had implemented all of this - what would remain for this contest? ;-)

    Skinning in MP2 needs some knowledge - at least basic MPF knowledge. As we say in our Wiki, you can read the WPF docs in the MSDN. Here, the concepts and usage of XAML and WPF are explained. Our own "MediaPortal Presentation Foundation" (MPF) works very similar to WPF, only with some elements missing and with some additional controls. Sometimes, properties are slightly changed against WPF.

    I'm intentionally not giving so much help at the beginning to force people to work into the subject. It's necessary to do that to profit from our very cool SkinEngine.
     

    pilehave

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    Re: AW: Re: Skinning contest

    I think you should focus on concept-art as base for the new skin. MP2 is in many ways not usable as base for skinning.

    :sorry:

    [edit]My point is, that if nobody knows which views are implemented (coverflow anyone?) or listviews with the possibility to grow/shrink the thumbnail on the selected item, then the skin will be limited to the views we have today.

    For instance, I would like to see a wall-view, where the selected thumb is always in the middle, and the wall with covers moves behind it.

    And yes, I did test out MP2 a few days ago, and I missed both context-menus, OSDs, hidden menus etc. So, how would I know what is possible?

    I think you're searching at the wrong abstraction layer. MP2 doesn't provide standard controls like OSD menus or menus at all. MP2 is based on MPF which basically provides controls like layout containers, lists, buttons, borders etc. That means, if you need an OSD - create one.
    Given the flexibility and easiness of templating, that is a very small task and makes it possible to create very well looking new components.

    If you don't want to dive so deep into MPF designing/programming, you can still use the control templates which are already defined. But - as you said, the set of controls is not complete yet.
    That's one of the reasons we do this contest: To get good ideas of how new skins could look, how new controls could work etc. If we already had implemented all of this - what would remain for this contest? ;-)

    Skinning in MP2 needs some knowledge - at least basic MPF knowledge. As we say in our Wiki, you can read the WPF docs in the MSDN. Here, the concepts and usage of XAML and WPF are explained. Our own "MediaPortal Presentation Foundation" (MPF) works very similar to WPF, only with some elements missing and with some additional controls. Sometimes, properties are slightly changed against WPF.

    I'm intentionally not giving so much help at the beginning to force people to work into the subject. It's necessary to do that to profit from our very cool SkinEngine.

    OK, (hope I don't insult anyone) I think that most skinners would be unable to create both plugins and skins for them. I know I would.

    The learning curve is steep when nothing that you know or have learned from MP1, is releveant in MP2. Most aspiring skinners take existing skins and modify these.

    I'm not trying to put down the contest, I'm just telling you not to expect too much.
     

    Albert

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: Skinning contest

    OK, (hope I don't insult anyone) I think that most skinners would be unable to create both plugins and skins for them. I know I would.

    The learning curve is steep when nothing that you know or have learned from MP1, is releveant in MP2. Most aspiring skinners take existing skins and modify these.

    I'm not trying to put down the contest, I'm just telling you not to expect too much.

    You're right, skinning in MP2 is done very differently from skinning in MP1. Maybe I should have said this before.

    In MP2, we want to do things right. Thus, many tasks are better planned than it was done before.
    The task of skinning consists of three major sub tasks:

    1) Create (or reuse) a navigation concept. The navigation concept consists of the choice of navigation controls (menu, context menu, navigation bar), navigation buttons on the remote and on the keyboard, considerations like "which navigation options are displayed when to the user?", transitions between pages etc. and design guidelines.
    2) Create a draft of the new look (How are regions of the main pages structured? How should dialogs look like? Which default set of controls is present and how should they look like? Should fixed images be used or should all graphics be rendered by the SkinEngine, together with graphical mouse interaction, for example?).
    3) Implement the new skin.

    In each of those sub tasks, you can re-use items from the default skin, where those sub-tasks have already been done. Unfortunately, those design steps haven't been documented for the default skin yet. It's one of the things which are still to do.
     

    n4orcer

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    I have been watching some videos of WPF and it's intresting. I have a few ideas and the goal of Essence have always been to be available for both MePo1 and MePo2 and why not start testing stuff out now.. :)

    I have tried to get MePo 2 to work but it closes after a few seconds with the "Application stopped working screen".. But that's not why I'm writing here. :)

    I agree with what others have said, it's a completely new ball game with skinning for MePo2. I have only started reading and working with WPF and it's quite hard to get started working on anything mostly because of the lack of documentation and resources (That I've found here).

    In my opinion I would think that it would be easier to get started and perhaps yield more interest if the following where considered:

    • Provide the latest SVN as a download, just as a .zip or something would be easy enough.
    • Provide an "bare" skin, eg. all files that is needed to get the default skin/theme working without any "custom" .dll files. Just images, xml, XAML and what else is needed. Basically provide the default skin/theme as an separate download to start working with. It's a bit hard to get a grip on things when everything is "in-place" as it is now, at least for me.
    • More detailed documentation (Perhaps already done in the new wiki?) then currently available to get started with the skinning with common examples of how to do things. There are many good WPF tutorials out there, but if you would select those that provide a good start in terms of stuff you can do in MePo2 that would be really good. Aswell as examples and an extensive documentation of your own MPF.
    • Examples of what is NOT possible to do with MePo2 that is possible in/with WPF applications, if there are any that are known. For example is it possible to create an 3D object in MePo2? I think I've read somewhere earlier that it's possible in WPF and that would be cool to have. Creating things like the particle background for the PS3 and similar 3D objects that are in the UI's of both Xbox360 and PS3.
    • Applications that could aid/help when creating the skin, eg is it possible to create the design/layout in some application and transfer it over? I've downloaded the trial of "Microsoft Expression" as it looked to provide some quite nice tools for general WPF development, is it possible to use that for example?

    A few of the things above I've found on the current wiki, but some things a clearly outdated and point to pages/sites that do not work or provide that information anymore.

    Anyway just a few suggestions on how to perhaps get a quicker start on things and get skinners started faster with this. :)

    I will dig in and see what I can create/modify/learn/do by myself and hopefully I will get the hang of it... :p For now I'm off to do Photoshop mockups for MePo2 and see if I can provide anything of interest in the contest :)

    In closing, thanks for all you hard work! I'm really looking forward to MePo2 and the future it brings so keep up all the good work you guys are doing! :D
     

    Albert

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    AW: Skinning contest

    Well, for WPF there IS a very good and detailed documentation available in the MSDN. But you're right, for MPF, we don't have this. We only have limited menpower. Currently, we're focusing on the development and not on the documentation so much yet.
    I know that the learning curve is very steep, but once you understood how things work, it is very easy. Believe me, it is great fun to skin for MP2.

    Perhaps someone can create a starting plugin for a new skin - that would make it easier for others to step in. TODO: Use the example plugin, create new IDs and change the plugin's name, create and register a skin directory and create a skin descriptor. That should be the steps to have a "virgin" new skin which looks the same as the default skin.
     

    DieBagger

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    [*]Provide the latest SVN as a download, just as a .zip or something would be easy enough.

    I think that would be very important since skin developers are often (I might be wrong ;)) not used to svn/compiling from sourcecode.
     

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