Ireland UPC FTA channels (1 Viewer)

[Markrg]

Hi, hoping someone can help. I'm trying to get the Irish UPC free to air channels working through MedialPortal on my PC but I can't get any signal. I had this working on the same machine a few years ago and I've just dug the machine out to start a project of setting up a TV server for the household but I've stumbled at step 1 of getting the channels working on the PC!

I'm using Windows Vista 32bit with MediaPortal 1.8 and a Technotrend DVB-C card, all the same hardware that worked fine a few years ago. Decent (if not a bit old) 1gb ASUS graphics card as well.

I have the same TV cable going directly into an old TV that picks up all the FTA channels so I don't think the signal is encrypted or digital, so my guess is I'm scanning at the wrong frequencies? On my TVServer scanning options I see Ireland in the country box but only Belfast-Virgin in the provider option. An older set of instructions I had suggested setting up another region specific search criteria (.dvbc file?) within the 'tuning parameters' folder but I couldn't find that folder.

Long term I'm looking to use a MediaPortal TV server fed by Saorview and freeview satellites and accessed via Raspberry Pi's around the house.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Many thanks,
Mark

 

[mm1352000]

Hello and welcome

I have the same TV cable going directly into an old TV that picks up all the FTA channels so I don't think the signal is encrypted or digital, so my guess is I'm scanning at the wrong frequencies?

From what you've said I'd also guess the same. However I'm confused. When you say you have a DVB-C tuner but don't think the signal is encrypted or digital... well, DVB-C is always digital.

Does this old TV of yours have a DVB-C receiver built in? If not, I guess it would be receiving analog signals... which can't be received with a DVB-C tuner.

On my TVServer scanning options I see Ireland in the country box but only Belfast-Virgin in the provider option.

This simply means nobody has submitted UPC tuning details to us. Don't let it put you off.

An older set of instructions I had suggested setting up another region specific search criteria (.dvbc file?) within the 'tuning parameters' folder but I couldn't find that folder.

Sounds reasonable. You can find that folder in "c:\ProgramData\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal TV Server\TuningParameters\dvbc". Windows usually hides ProgramData, so copy and paste the path into the address bar in Windows Explorer to get there.

Regards,
mm

 

[Markrg]

Thanks mm - I've probably given away my lack knowledge with my statement about DVB-C and analog! The reason I mention analog is that I doubt very much that my old televion has a DVB-C tuner so I am assuming there is a analog signal coming from somewhere. Only an assumption.

But I have had some success - I found the home transponder (291000 64QAM 6887) and by doing search for transponder list I found 13 other transponders and all channels now show in the mapped to card list. I set the CAM enabled to 1 (even though I have no card). But only one channel works - RTE1. In the channel list in server config nothing appears in the available channel list - all channels appear with a red T which I guess means scambled.

The list of channels I have pulled in includes all the encrypted sports etc (181 in total) but I don't want those - I only want the free to air channels that my old television picks up (about 17 channels I think) not the encrypted ones. Am I missing something? What might my old television be picking up my PC tuner isn't?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Markrg]

To add, I'm using the same cable for the PC tuner and old television, so could both a digital encrypted and analog signal be coming in through the cable?

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again Mark

Glad to hear you're making progress!

But I have had some success - I found the home transponder (291000 64QAM 6887) and by doing search for transponder list I found 13 other transponders and all channels now show in the mapped to card list.

That's excellent.
I note that the transponder search isn't guaranteed to find all transponders. We can only get the information the broadcaster has included. So it is possible there are other transponders "out there"...

I set the CAM enabled to 1 (even though I have no card).
...all channels appear with a red T which I guess means scambled.

Yes, the red bubble/icon means encrypted/scrambled (and the T means TV; R means radio). Having said that, TV Server doesn't always detect the encryption status correctly. So, setting the CAM enabled is a good idea. That enables you to check if channels are really encrypted.

But only one channel works - RTE1.

How are you testing? ...in MediaPortal, server config preview, server config manual control...?
...and what result/message do you get for non-working channels?

In the channel list in server config nothing appears in the available channel list...

Which channel list is this?
A screenshot would be great if you can manage it.

The list of channels I have pulled in includes all the encrypted sports etc (181 in total) but I don't want those - I only want the free to air channels that my old television picks up (about 17 channels I think) not the encrypted ones.

To be clear: are these channels that the old TV picks up free versions of the encrypted channels found by the PC tuner, or are they completely different channels?

The reason I mention analog is that I doubt very much that my old televion has a DVB-C tuner so I am assuming there is a analog signal coming from somewhere. Only an assumption.

Am I missing something? What might my old television be picking up my PC tuner isn't?

To add, I'm using the same cable for the PC tuner and old television, so could both a digital encrypted and analog signal be coming in through the cable?

I'll take all of these comments/questions together - hopefully that's okay with you.

From a technical perspective, it is entirely possible for encrypted (or free) digital channels to be delivered along with analog channels from the same cable headend/system on the same cable.

Obviously I don't know what your old TV is capable of receiving, but perhaps you could look up the brand and model number on the internet and see if you can find the specifications? The other thing you could try is to see if you can find any technical information in the TV's menu/settings system. Perhaps it will show you a frequency or other information that helps you to determine whether it is receiving an analog or digital signal.

Based on your own assumption about the TV, at this point the simplest explanation for the situation does seem to be that the old TV is receiving analog channels which the PC DVB-C tuner can't receive. However, that doesn't explain how you were able to receive the channels in the past. I guess it is possible that the digital channels were not encrypted in the past and that somebody flicked the switch to enable encryption at some point between then and now. That would be sad, but unfortunately not uncommon.

The comforting constant in all of this is that the TV is still receiving the channels, so receiving them on the PC must be possible somehow. Wikipedia says UPC is still delivering analog TV in some areas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPC_Ireland#Television
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_television_in_Ireland

I suspect the signal may be switched off at any point, but if you're serious about receiving these channels perhaps you could consider buying a cheap and/or second hand analog tuner for the PC? Analog tuners are relatively cheap these days since ASO/DSO (analog switch off, digital switch on/over) has occurred in many countries, so even if it doesn't work or the signal is switched off in a few months you haven't lost/spent much.

Regards,
mm

 

[Peter Mee]

Hi Mark

Can't help with the UPC issue but just a quick 'hello' to let you know I'm in Ireland and have set up a saorview / freesat MediaPortal system (thouse I use the ArgusTV backend as it's got much better scheduling support for things like series recording etc.)

I use digital devices Octopus system which allows up to 8 DVB-T / DVB-S" / DVB-C tuners on a single PCIe slot.

I've taken a slightly different approach to whole house distribution by building everything into a single box;

http://mediaserver8.blogspot.ie/2014/05/current-build.html

I did try RaspberryPi as clients in the past but found it overall disappointing (plus you'd need to run XBMC which kind of defeats the purpose)

Peter

 

[Markrg]

Hi Peter, thanks for the reply.

Your blog made an interesting read and your setup is probably the ideal setup I'd be looking for but a bit beyond my ability and certainly my budget for the moment! But your blog got me thinking in another way to how I had originally thought of it and something smaller scale might suit me to try out.

Can I ask two questions?

What do you use to access the VMs on your various tvs? You must need another machine / dumb terminal I would think connected to the tv and network? Could a Raspberry Pi act as that? You only mention a GPU - is that a graphics card running in its own? Wasn't aware you could do that

With the VM sessions I could theoretically (based on my limited knowledge!) use them to play games through the VMs and over the network in the house? i.e. Minecraft (which the kids are mad for) or other more adult games for me!

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Peter Mee]

Hi Mark

It's taken me many years and not a few false starts to get to that point and as you probably know, it's never done. I'd hate to calculate how much I've spent over the years but I put it down as a hobby!!

In my system, there's a single physical box (one motherboard, one PSU) that contains lots of hard drives for media storage. The operating system is unRaid, a linux-based OS that's designed to allow really any old combination of hardware to be configured as a NAS.

The latest version of unraid allows for the creation of virtual machines (VMs). This means that you can set up a second (or more) operating system on the same physical hardware. These can be windows, linux or any other operating system,

Usually, when people set up VMs like this, the actual UI (i.e. Windows) is displayed in a window on the host system or accessed from other PCs via VNC , remote desktop or similar. So essentially, you have a main/host OS with a monitor and the virtual OS, while independent of the host, runs in a window in this screen. You'd usually use the host system mouse and keyboard as well. Often, virtual machines will suffer from poor performance in areas such as disk i/o (as it' emulated), graphics etc.

(the guest OS is 'installed' to a virtual disk file that resides on the host systems hard drive)

Now, some hypervisors (the software that enables VMs to run on a host system) have the ability to 'pass through' hardware devices from the host system. That is to say, a sound card, or a usb device can be accessed by the virtual machine which sees it as if it were a physical device in a physical system.

The cool thing here is that graphics cards (gpus) can be passed through to the virtual machine, meaning that the virtual machine can address the graphics at native speeds allowing for video playback, gaming etc..

Now, the above is somewhat oversimplified but essentially, what this means is that with powerful enough hardware, for the cost of an extra graphics card (and OS if using windows on our vm), you can run multiple machines in a single box. (note that hardware passed through is exclusive to the VM, so if you wanted to run two VMs simultaneously with dedicated graphics, you'd need two GPUs etc.)

Now, to answer your questions;

With this set up, there's no need for client hardware at the TV. You simply connect the HDMI out from the dedicated graphics card to your receiver or TV and you have picture and sound.

There is one caveat: your display must be within HDMI cable reach from the system. I'm fortunate in that I have 3 screens all within about a 20' cable run from a particular point in my attic.

If your display is further away, this won't work and you will need a client device connected to the same network.

As to your second question, the VM is for all intents and purposes a fully functioning PC. With a powerful enough graphics card and the correct allocation of memory and CPUs, you could play pretty much anything you like. It behaves just like an independent system.

So, there's great savings in system build costs, running costs and general maintenance. But there's a good deal setting up involved so it's not for the faint hearted - and we haven't even discussed software yet!

Happy to answer any questions.

Peter

 

[Markrg]

Peter - very detailed response so cheers for that. I think I managed to understand most of it!

As I thought you have your tvs connected direct to your box which wouldn't be an option for me so I'll need a client device of some sort.

Something for me to play around with for the winter maybe!