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<blockquote data-quote="hello_joe" data-source="post: 981026" data-attributes="member: 139074"><p>Hello again breese</p><p> </p><p>Just to recap what we talked about in the other thread...</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black"><a href="https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/atsc-card-owners-come-here-for-support.5231/page-51#post-937051" target="_blank">https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/atsc-card-owners-come-here-for-support.5231/page-51#post-937051</a></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black"><a href="https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/hauppuge-wintv-hvr-1250.104421/page-2#post-880236" target="_blank">https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/hauppuge-wintv-hvr-1250.104421/page-2#post-880236</a></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">So in general @<a href="https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/members/mm1352000.82144/" target="_blank">mm1352000</a> recommends starting with standard, then trying HRC (harmonically related carriers). They're by far the most common frequency plans used. AIUI the IRC and HRC + 3 options are much less frequently used. Standard is almost identical to std alternate. Just a few frequencies differ.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">You can check out the actual frequencies scanned by opening the corresponding XML files.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">1. Open TV Server configuration.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">2. Click "open log directory" in the top left corner.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">3. Go up a level (to "c:\ProgramData\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal TV Server").</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">4. Go into the "TuningParameters" folder. Then go into the "atsc" folder.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">The files you see there are the files that are used for cable (clear QAM) scans. You can open them in any text editor (notepad, wordpad, word etc.). The frequency is in kHz. Order is important. The first frequency is meant to line up with physical channel 1; the second is physical channel 2. etc. You can find more info about frequency plans here:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_cable_television_frequencies" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_cable_television_frequencies</a></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">Ultimately, the best way to find out which option to use is to ring your cable provider and ask them what frequency/band plan they use.</span></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">This is an indication that you're not letting it scan for long enough. Increase the SDT/VCT timeout as mentioned in the other thread, and once you know which QAM option to use, allow the scan to run right the way through. I know it is tempting to cancel but as @<a href="https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/members/mm1352000.82144/" target="_blank">mm1352000</a> says, the channel numbers MP is scanning are physical channel numbers (ie. not the virtual channel numbers that you see in your channel lineup).</span></span></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">As mentioned in the other thread, Speed Channel is most likely there - just named as "Unknown...".</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">As per the first link above, you are lucky to get any real names at all. MP is looking for the names in the VCT (virtual channel table) - part of the PSIP (program and system information protocol). Cable providers are not required to carry PSIP. They usually only do so for local channels, and only if they have an agreement with the channel provider. They carry the full set of channel names and numbers for their channels in an "out-of-band" (OOB) channel. With the exception of CableCARD tuners, I don't know of any PC clear QAM or ATSC tuner that can receive the OOB info (it requires a special OOB tuner). Hence all PC software (MythTV, NPVR, MP...) are in the same position when it comes to getting channel names: they get what the cable provider puts in the VCT, and that is not usually very much.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Which field in the screenshot contains the correct channel number?</p><p>Be aware this is also normal. Channel numbers are in the same category as channel names. If your cable provider puts the channel number in the service ID field or something... well, that is pure chance. There is no standard that says they have to do that, and in fact most cable providers don't. They only care about the information in their OOB info being correct. That OOB info is what the cable set-top-boxes use to populate their channel lists. It is really unfortunate that PC tuners don't have the ability to access the OOB info, but such is life.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">The unknown channels are real channels. They're usually encrypted, but they are real.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">The channels with green dots next to them are the ones that MP thinks are free; the ones with red dots are the ones that MP thinks are encrypted.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">Since MP doesn't have access to the OOB info, it is making an educated guess when it assigns a channel as encrypted or free. Sometimes it guesses wrong; that is normal. In those cases you have two options. Either mark each channel as free (basically go to the tuning details as shown in your ABCHD screenshot, then ensure the "free to air" tickbox is ticked ... and repeat for all channels), or say that the tuner is capable of decrypting channels (which we know it isn't, but it saves time changing all the channels). To tell MP to try and view channels it thinks are encrypted:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">1. Open TV Server configuration.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">2. Go to the tuner list.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">3. Select the tuner and click "edit". You should see the tuner settings:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black"><a href="http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_MEDIAPORTAL_1/141_Configuration/TV-Server_Configuration/02_TV_Servers#Edit_Tuner_Settings" target="_blank">http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_MEDIAPORTAL_1/141_Configuration/TV-Server_Configuration/02_TV_Servers#Edit_Tuner_Settings</a></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">4. Tick "CAM enabled and present for this card".</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">5. Click "save".</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">Yep, unfortunately that is how it works. You'll have to figure out which channel is which by viewing them and fixing the name.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">They're probably as good as you're going to get.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"><span style="color: black">As mentioned in the other thread, the SD lineup is based on the location and provider you select... but it doesn't create usable channels. It only knows which channels you should be able to receive, and attempts to match that lineup with the channels that MP finds in a scan. So the idea is to do a scan in MP, then the SD plugin comes along and attempts to match your lineup with the MP channels. When it can't make a match, it creates a placeholder ("this channel is not mapped to any card"). To be honest, SD is great... but matching up the channels with all the "Unknowns" and inconsistent names can be a real pain. I'd suggest it is better to get the MP names right *before* trying to match with SD.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'tahoma'"><strong><span style="color: black">Tip: once you've renamed your channels, use the import/export section to export a backup so if the SD matching screws everything up you can always delete all the channels, re-import the backup and try again.</span></strong></span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Probably not. Unfortunately setting up cable and ATSC tuners in MP is just downright painful. It isn't really MPs fault because they don't have access to the information that a cable set-top-box has access to (because PC tuners don't have an OOB tuner). You'll find this forum is littered with posts of users that don't understand this stuff and give up. There are few people here that know these technical details and actively spend time helping. @<a href="https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/members/mm1352000.82144/" target="_blank">mm1352000</a> is one of those people but unfortunately he hasn't been seen around here for months. So you're stuck with me I guess. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px">As above, I don't think there is much you or any developer could do. To recap, the problem is:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px">1. PC tuners aren't capable of receiving the OOB info that cable set-top-boxes use to populate their channel lists.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px">2. Cable providers don't provide their full channel lineup in the VCT info that PC tuners can receive.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'tahoma'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Cable providers have vested interests in keeping people tied to their set-top-boxes. They have no interest in allowing you to use a PC to view their channels. Hence HTPCs with TV in the US and Canada are not very widespread, and those that do manage to get them working put in a lot of time and effort.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Hope that helps!</p><p>Joe</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hello_joe, post: 981026, member: 139074"] Hello again breese Just to recap what we talked about in the other thread... [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][url]https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/atsc-card-owners-come-here-for-support.5231/page-51#post-937051[/url][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][url]https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/hauppuge-wintv-hvr-1250.104421/page-2#post-880236[/url][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]So in general @[URL='https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/members/mm1352000.82144/']mm1352000[/URL] recommends starting with standard, then trying HRC (harmonically related carriers). They're by far the most common frequency plans used. AIUI the IRC and HRC + 3 options are much less frequently used. Standard is almost identical to std alternate. Just a few frequencies differ.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]You can check out the actual frequencies scanned by opening the corresponding XML files.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]1. Open TV Server configuration.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]2. Click "open log directory" in the top left corner.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]3. Go up a level (to "c:\ProgramData\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal TV Server").[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]4. Go into the "TuningParameters" folder. Then go into the "atsc" folder.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]The files you see there are the files that are used for cable (clear QAM) scans. You can open them in any text editor (notepad, wordpad, word etc.). The frequency is in kHz. Order is important. The first frequency is meant to line up with physical channel 1; the second is physical channel 2. etc. You can find more info about frequency plans here:[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_cable_television_frequencies[/url][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]Ultimately, the best way to find out which option to use is to ring your cable provider and ask them what frequency/band plan they use.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]This is an indication that you're not letting it scan for long enough. Increase the SDT/VCT timeout as mentioned in the other thread, and once you know which QAM option to use, allow the scan to run right the way through. I know it is tempting to cancel but as @[URL='https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/members/mm1352000.82144/']mm1352000[/URL] says, the channel numbers MP is scanning are physical channel numbers (ie. not the virtual channel numbers that you see in your channel lineup).[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]As mentioned in the other thread, Speed Channel is most likely there - just named as "Unknown...".[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]As per the first link above, you are lucky to get any real names at all. MP is looking for the names in the VCT (virtual channel table) - part of the PSIP (program and system information protocol). Cable providers are not required to carry PSIP. They usually only do so for local channels, and only if they have an agreement with the channel provider. They carry the full set of channel names and numbers for their channels in an "out-of-band" (OOB) channel. With the exception of CableCARD tuners, I don't know of any PC clear QAM or ATSC tuner that can receive the OOB info (it requires a special OOB tuner). Hence all PC software (MythTV, NPVR, MP...) are in the same position when it comes to getting channel names: they get what the cable provider puts in the VCT, and that is not usually very much.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] Which field in the screenshot contains the correct channel number? Be aware this is also normal. Channel numbers are in the same category as channel names. If your cable provider puts the channel number in the service ID field or something... well, that is pure chance. There is no standard that says they have to do that, and in fact most cable providers don't. They only care about the information in their OOB info being correct. That OOB info is what the cable set-top-boxes use to populate their channel lists. It is really unfortunate that PC tuners don't have the ability to access the OOB info, but such is life. [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]The unknown channels are real channels. They're usually encrypted, but they are real.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]The channels with green dots next to them are the ones that MP thinks are free; the ones with red dots are the ones that MP thinks are encrypted.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]Since MP doesn't have access to the OOB info, it is making an educated guess when it assigns a channel as encrypted or free. Sometimes it guesses wrong; that is normal. In those cases you have two options. Either mark each channel as free (basically go to the tuning details as shown in your ABCHD screenshot, then ensure the "free to air" tickbox is ticked ... and repeat for all channels), or say that the tuner is capable of decrypting channels (which we know it isn't, but it saves time changing all the channels). To tell MP to try and view channels it thinks are encrypted:[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]1. Open TV Server configuration.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]2. Go to the tuner list.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]3. Select the tuner and click "edit". You should see the tuner settings:[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][url]http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_MEDIAPORTAL_1/141_Configuration/TV-Server_Configuration/02_TV_Servers#Edit_Tuner_Settings[/url][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]4. Tick "CAM enabled and present for this card".[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]5. Click "save".[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]Yep, unfortunately that is how it works. You'll have to figure out which channel is which by viewing them and fixing the name.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]They're probably as good as you're going to get.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=black]As mentioned in the other thread, the SD lineup is based on the location and provider you select... but it doesn't create usable channels. It only knows which channels you should be able to receive, and attempts to match that lineup with the channels that MP finds in a scan. So the idea is to do a scan in MP, then the SD plugin comes along and attempts to match your lineup with the MP channels. When it can't make a match, it creates a placeholder ("this channel is not mapped to any card"). To be honest, SD is great... but matching up the channels with all the "Unknowns" and inconsistent names can be a real pain. I'd suggest it is better to get the MP names right *before* trying to match with SD.[/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=tahoma][B][COLOR=black]Tip: once you've renamed your channels, use the import/export section to export a backup so if the SD matching screws everything up you can always delete all the channels, re-import the backup and try again.[/COLOR][/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3]Probably not. Unfortunately setting up cable and ATSC tuners in MP is just downright painful. It isn't really MPs fault because they don't have access to the information that a cable set-top-box has access to (because PC tuners don't have an OOB tuner). You'll find this forum is littered with posts of users that don't understand this stuff and give up. There are few people here that know these technical details and actively spend time helping. @[URL='https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/members/mm1352000.82144/']mm1352000[/URL] is one of those people but unfortunately he hasn't been seen around here for months. So you're stuck with me I guess. :([/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3]As above, I don't think there is much you or any developer could do. To recap, the problem is:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3]1. PC tuners aren't capable of receiving the OOB info that cable set-top-boxes use to populate their channel lists.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3]2. Cable providers don't provide their full channel lineup in the VCT info that PC tuners can receive.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3]Cable providers have vested interests in keeping people tied to their set-top-boxes. They have no interest in allowing you to use a PC to view their channels. Hence HTPCs with TV in the US and Canada are not very widespread, and those that do manage to get them working put in a lot of time and effort.[/SIZE][/FONT] Hope that helps! Joe [/QUOTE]
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