A Dream: MediaPortal & XBMC combining forces together... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter leo212
- Start date
Netherlands
* XBMC is much faster!
* The fact that it's platform independent makes it more powerful.
* It's easier to configure, especially for non-nerds
* Writing plugins is easier, python is easy to learn and there is no need to compile. Even with very basic python knowledge you can take the source of a existing plugin and adept to fit your needs. It's as easy as adapting a php script.
* Updates, plugins, scripts and skins can be downloaded from within the application, with your remote. Which is a huge plus.
* The features are very complete. Like subtitle synchronization is integrated. You can adjust the delay of subtitles while watching a movie.
I've tried to get my three sisters to use MP. But after 6 months of supporting them and helping them to use it in every way I could. It still was a no-go. So I bought a XBOX for them and within a week they (and theire boyfriends) can't live without it. They know how to use it, how to coonfigure it and how to install addons and updates. I didn't even have to explain how to do it!
There actually is only one major thing missing in XBMC and that is an integrated PVR. This is the one thing that makes MP a great app and solo at the top of PVR software. XBMC is almost the best HTPC application. If MP and XBMC would join, it would make XBMC the best ever HTPC/PVR. It looks like XBMC is going to win the SourceForge.net community choice award in several catagories. That says a lot
* The fact that it's platform independent makes it more powerful.
* It's easier to configure, especially for non-nerds
* Writing plugins is easier, python is easy to learn and there is no need to compile. Even with very basic python knowledge you can take the source of a existing plugin and adept to fit your needs. It's as easy as adapting a php script.
* Updates, plugins, scripts and skins can be downloaded from within the application, with your remote. Which is a huge plus.
* The features are very complete. Like subtitle synchronization is integrated. You can adjust the delay of subtitles while watching a movie.
I've tried to get my three sisters to use MP. But after 6 months of supporting them and helping them to use it in every way I could. It still was a no-go. So I bought a XBOX for them and within a week they (and theire boyfriends) can't live without it. They know how to use it, how to coonfigure it and how to install addons and updates. I didn't even have to explain how to do it!
There actually is only one major thing missing in XBMC and that is an integrated PVR. This is the one thing that makes MP a great app and solo at the top of PVR software. XBMC is almost the best HTPC application. If MP and XBMC would join, it would make XBMC the best ever HTPC/PVR. It looks like XBMC is going to win the SourceForge.net community choice award in several catagories. That says a lot
ÄHM Sorry but
1. let me say: Neither I or anyone I know is involved in MP
2. I have tried XBMC for a while and so far I have to say there are to many points were it sucks.
Good points
-fast
-Pretty nice skins with some nice ways to view your data in some.
-multiplattform
BAD
-Website There is a link to programdownload now good but where are the links to the Skin downloads?
even in the forum topics for the skin there are no dowload links hadt to google for 15 min to find a downloadlink
to get Vi2ion, and dont tell me about the grat skin downloader inside the actal skins arent in there and the downloaded dont show up anywhere.
-Every skin has different views pretty nice but there should be some basic views that are in every skin.
-BIGGEST DRAWBACK the configuration is a very bad joke in MP i can start the config program and simply ad files to the libary but in xbmc its (/)/&&/&/&% every skin puts that somewhere else
-some realy basic buttons are to hard to reach u should be able to exit program from any screen not as xbmc does it.
XBMC Seems to be a program worth to keep an eye on but so far its NERDS ONLY for me
1. let me say: Neither I or anyone I know is involved in MP
2. I have tried XBMC for a while and so far I have to say there are to many points were it sucks.
Good points
-fast
-Pretty nice skins with some nice ways to view your data in some.
-multiplattform
BAD
-Website There is a link to programdownload now good but where are the links to the Skin downloads?
even in the forum topics for the skin there are no dowload links hadt to google for 15 min to find a downloadlink
to get Vi2ion, and dont tell me about the grat skin downloader inside the actal skins arent in there and the downloaded dont show up anywhere.
-Every skin has different views pretty nice but there should be some basic views that are in every skin.
-BIGGEST DRAWBACK the configuration is a very bad joke in MP i can start the config program and simply ad files to the libary but in xbmc its (/)/&&/&/&% every skin puts that somewhere else
-some realy basic buttons are to hard to reach u should be able to exit program from any screen not as xbmc does it.
XBMC Seems to be a program worth to keep an eye on but so far its NERDS ONLY for me
It's true that it can be hard to find skins and plugins. There is no site that contains all available skins/scripts/plugins. Actually, the forum does, but it's hard to find them.
So I adepted a existing plugin to create a easier installation and update method for skins/scripts/plugins. Installation instructions are in the wiki on my googlecode page You'll see. It makes life a lot easier.
If you are using an old version of XBMC you won't be able to install the plugin (because there is no plugin support). If you've build XBMC from source or installed a recent T3CH build, installing the plugin shouldn't be a problem.
xbmc-favorites - Google Code
You should always run the latest version of XBMC to make sure all plugins and skins from xbmc-favorites run correctly.
Get the latest T3CH build here. For this one time you'll need to update XBMC true FTP. Once that's done you can install the xbmc-favorites plugin and download and install the "T3CH Upgrader" script with it. From this point on you won't have to FTP to your XBOX anymore, unless there are plugins I don't offer for download with xbmc-favorites, if so....let me know!. I'll only add addons that are updated regularly and work with the latest builds.
Keep in mind that the Linux/WIndows/Mac builds are not as complete and stable as the XBOX version, they are in early alpha stage, although they are all usable for sure!
edit: You'll find some more up-to-date xbmc downloads on googlecode...
So I adepted a existing plugin to create a easier installation and update method for skins/scripts/plugins. Installation instructions are in the wiki on my googlecode page
You'll see. It makes life a lot easier.If you are using an old version of XBMC you won't be able to install the plugin (because there is no plugin support). If you've build XBMC from source or installed a recent T3CH build, installing the plugin shouldn't be a problem.
xbmc-favorites - Google Code
You should always run the latest version of XBMC to make sure all plugins and skins from xbmc-favorites run correctly.
Get the latest T3CH build here. For this one time you'll need to update XBMC true FTP. Once that's done you can install the xbmc-favorites plugin and download and install the "T3CH Upgrader" script with it. From this point on you won't have to FTP to your XBOX anymore, unless there are plugins I don't offer for download with xbmc-favorites, if so....let me know!. I'll only add addons that are updated regularly and work with the latest builds.
Keep in mind that the Linux/WIndows/Mac builds are not as complete and stable as the XBOX version, they are in early alpha stage, although they are all usable for sure!
edit: You'll find some more up-to-date xbmc downloads on googlecode...
The only thing that REALLY bothers me is the IMDB scan in MP at the moment. It bothers me that much that I think it should either be fixed or removed all together.
It is beyond broken. Scanning 500 movies in MP resulted in about 10% tagged correctly. Scanning the same with XBMC yielded the OPPOSITE result, i.e 10% NOT tagged correctly.
Another thing is the general beta state of things. For example I want to install Skin X right. Ok then I need this and that SVN version. Oh wait, something broke in that SVN version so I have to download a separate SVN version for some module. But uh oh, that version broke something in the skin so then I have to downgrade the skin, but now the skin insn't working at all since I upgraded other stuff.
It's basically the story of MP if you want to use anything newer than the official releases (which are usually very old, or has been very old before the latest RC1). There is too much breakage of stuff. I know about SVN and development, I am a developer myself, but it seems there are issues in settling for certain APIs and such which leads to a lot of frustration.
Some would say "Well beta is beta, run the release version". Yes, I would, but even the release version ends up being unusable after a while since you cannot even find plugins for it that works anylonger (or you have a seriously hard time finding them, you might even need to get a specific tag from SVN and compile it yourself).
I sincerely hope this will change with MPII and that certain things are really thought through from the beginning. In my opinion, internal APIs etc shold not even be changed within a version cycle. If they are in such bad state the branch should just be declared EOL as soon as possible.
With that said I, personally, think that MPI should have reached End of Life a long time ago. What is (seemingly) happening now is trying to repair something that was a quilt even before. MPI should have been left and the development on MPII should have been started asap. Many said "well it will be a while before we will see anyhing". Yeah ok, but that was like what.. over 6 months ago? MPII would have been lightyears more mature now than it is, in some areas probably much better than MPI is now. Even if MPI has reacher greater stability I'm having a hard time weighing the value in what has been done on MPI as opposed to what we would have had with MPII if that development started seriously when it could have.
It is beyond broken. Scanning 500 movies in MP resulted in about 10% tagged correctly. Scanning the same with XBMC yielded the OPPOSITE result, i.e 10% NOT tagged correctly.
Another thing is the general beta state of things. For example I want to install Skin X right. Ok then I need this and that SVN version. Oh wait, something broke in that SVN version so I have to download a separate SVN version for some module. But uh oh, that version broke something in the skin so then I have to downgrade the skin, but now the skin insn't working at all since I upgraded other stuff.
It's basically the story of MP if you want to use anything newer than the official releases (which are usually very old, or has been very old before the latest RC1). There is too much breakage of stuff. I know about SVN and development, I am a developer myself, but it seems there are issues in settling for certain APIs and such which leads to a lot of frustration.
Some would say "Well beta is beta, run the release version". Yes, I would, but even the release version ends up being unusable after a while since you cannot even find plugins for it that works anylonger (or you have a seriously hard time finding them, you might even need to get a specific tag from SVN and compile it yourself).
I sincerely hope this will change with MPII and that certain things are really thought through from the beginning. In my opinion, internal APIs etc shold not even be changed within a version cycle. If they are in such bad state the branch should just be declared EOL as soon as possible.
With that said I, personally, think that MPI should have reached End of Life a long time ago. What is (seemingly) happening now is trying to repair something that was a quilt even before. MPI should have been left and the development on MPII should have been started asap. Many said "well it will be a while before we will see anyhing". Yeah ok, but that was like what.. over 6 months ago? MPII would have been lightyears more mature now than it is, in some areas probably much better than MPI is now. Even if MPI has reacher greater stability I'm having a hard time weighing the value in what has been done on MPI as opposed to what we would have had with MPII if that development started seriously when it could have.
...I'm always loving how some strangers tell me how I should spend my free time...
I expressed an opinion. Are you expecting every opinion to be favourable?
Even if I use MP everyday and I think it's the best and most complete solution, I cannot have a opinion on how I think things could have been done differently?
Do you think that just because you are doing something for free and on your own time it gives you the right to reject an opinion in this manner when it isn't favourable? How would things ever get improved at all then?
To be honest I am quite surprised that anyone in this, by now, seasoned team would react this way. From my point of view it didn't contain anything abusive or offensive. If you did find anything offensive, I will apologize for it. I would still think it would be within anyones right to express such opinions, but for the sake of the project I would.
Even if I use MP everyday and I think it's the best and most complete solution, I cannot have a opinion on how I think things could have been done differently?
Do you think that just because you are doing something for free and on your own time it gives you the right to reject an opinion in this manner when it isn't favourable? How would things ever get improved at all then?
To be honest I am quite surprised that anyone in this, by now, seasoned team would react this way. From my point of view it didn't contain anything abusive or offensive. If you did find anything offensive, I will apologize for it. I would still think it would be within anyones right to express such opinions, but for the sake of the project I would.
You are absolutely right. I think that, as long as it are not flame posts, the developers should look at this kind of criticism seriously. Intentions are good! Non project members look at MP from a different perspective and experience. In a way developers can't look at it. This kind of information is crucial in the development process (of such a huge project especially). I mean.... you can't satisfy everyone and you shouldn't try to. But stability and continuity are subjects everyone will agree on. It has nothing to do with taste or choices.....
One of the big cons with MP in comparison to XBMC is the (big!) budget needed to run MP and keep it running.
I've used MP for about 3 years intensively and it has cost me about 2500 euro the build a machine (and maintain it) so I could use all features available in usable way. If I'd chosen to buy a LCD TV for HTPC purposes (which would have made life much easier with MP) this even would have been a lot more. About 4000 euro.
A XBOX, remote, 82cm Widescreen TV (not new, but very good combined with the XBOX) and 2TB storage for XBMC has cost me a total of 500 euro over the last 5 years. Do the math....
This configuration requires almost no maintenance (apart from a occasional software update) and thus almost no time has to be spend on it (time=money). There is no integrated PVR functionality on the XBOX. But this could easily be fixed by buying a supported PVR solution for about 200 euro. Also, I can't use the XBOX for HD video. This could be a major issue for some people (not for me at the moment). A solution would be to buy a PC and run XBMC on that, with almost the same outcome and drawbacks as you'd have using MP. Still.... XBMC for Linux (there are some XBMC specific distributions in development, comparable with Mythbuntu) requires a lot less from the hardware. You don't need top of the bill to run XBMC on a PC which makes it a more cost effective solution overall.
For me, money is a important variable when choosing a HTPC solution, but usability is even a bit more important. At this point.... XBMC is a LOT cheaper for me and more usable (no need for HD yet, not seriously missing PVR funcionality). SO at this point, it's an easy choice, for me....personally.
One of the big cons with MP in comparison to XBMC is the (big!) budget needed to run MP and keep it running.
I've used MP for about 3 years intensively and it has cost me about 2500 euro the build a machine (and maintain it) so I could use all features available in usable way. If I'd chosen to buy a LCD TV for HTPC purposes (which would have made life much easier with MP) this even would have been a lot more. About 4000 euro.
A XBOX, remote, 82cm Widescreen TV (not new, but very good combined with the XBOX) and 2TB storage for XBMC has cost me a total of 500 euro over the last 5 years. Do the math....
This configuration requires almost no maintenance (apart from a occasional software update) and thus almost no time has to be spend on it (time=money). There is no integrated PVR functionality on the XBOX. But this could easily be fixed by buying a supported PVR solution for about 200 euro. Also, I can't use the XBOX for HD video. This could be a major issue for some people (not for me at the moment). A solution would be to buy a PC and run XBMC on that, with almost the same outcome and drawbacks as you'd have using MP. Still.... XBMC for Linux (there are some XBMC specific distributions in development, comparable with Mythbuntu) requires a lot less from the hardware. You don't need top of the bill to run XBMC on a PC which makes it a more cost effective solution overall.
For me, money is a important variable when choosing a HTPC solution, but usability is even a bit more important. At this point.... XBMC is a LOT cheaper for me and more usable (no need for HD yet, not seriously missing PVR funcionality). SO at this point, it's an easy choice, for me....personally.
No, I wasnt offended, only by annoyed (after a long day...) that someone states to be a developer and then tells how the things should be done. There have been similar posts (with completely different views
) in the history and I'm sure that there will always be, no matter what we chose...There are lot of reasons why MP1 is still developent (in maintenance mode)
#1 Developers (and team members) building the MP for their own use. It would have caused too huge gap to wait for MPII to be ready for daily use. I would expect over a year, so its just not a viable option to drop paching the MP1 as at least in my opinion there arent any other HTPC software that would suit my needs. Same goes for the current MP users. The wait for MPII would have been much too long. You just cannot build a feature complete, bug free HTPC application in 6 months.
#2 MPII has been in progress for the whole time when MP1 has been in maintenance. Software development cant be ramped up into fullspeed in one day. It requires planning and developing the core functionality (core itself, skinning engine, messaging...) by a smaller group (only the most skilled devs are taking part into this, me excluding) until the bigger crowd can start to write the code for "easier" parts. Just have a peek on MeediOS forums, they are guing thru the exactly same thing. Currently there are couple devs working on the core parts (HdWagner almost alone)
#3 Currently MP1 is starting to be a stable choise for many users (including at least some team members
). Now there isnt any big rush to push the MPII out, but instead we can learn from the MPI code base. The maintenance part of MP1 has given much more wisdom to us what has been done right, what isn't good and what is done completely wrong in MP1. I'm really confident that the road from MP1 to MPII we have taken is the right even if it seems to be the wrong one when looking from the outside of the team.
I've been using XBMC for ~ 3 years now and its a really nice peace of software, but you cannot really compare it to mp.
I personally expect XBMC for Windows to be much more worse than the xbox version. Pcs are a complicated plattform to develop on, whereas the xbox development should be much easier. All users share the same hardware - no xp, vista, 2000, 32bit, 64bit, driver,tv card ... issues.
Most of the problems mp has are the thousands of different configs people have and all those bugs that appear on config a but not on b. In the xbox world you normally don't have these problems. And you should consider that the tv-part (and all the things that belong to it) maybe is the most extensive. Maybe the devs could tell us something about the bug fixing ratio. I guess for every hour of coding you need a huge amout of time to bugfix.
For me MP is the best all-in-one htpc media solution out there, whereas xbmc is only a better movie player.
And i wouldn't call using mp too expensive. PCs are so damn cheap now, you can buy a really powerful system (dualcore, 4gb ram, >500 gb hdd, tv card, ...) for less than 500€, but you can also use mp on an older 200€ system. The kind of tv you buy is up to you, you can use the same one for mp and xbmc.
I personally expect XBMC for Windows to be much more worse than the xbox version. Pcs are a complicated plattform to develop on, whereas the xbox development should be much easier. All users share the same hardware - no xp, vista, 2000, 32bit, 64bit, driver,tv card ... issues.
Most of the problems mp has are the thousands of different configs people have and all those bugs that appear on config a but not on b. In the xbox world you normally don't have these problems. And you should consider that the tv-part (and all the things that belong to it) maybe is the most extensive. Maybe the devs could tell us something about the bug fixing ratio. I guess for every hour of coding you need a huge amout of time to bugfix.
For me MP is the best all-in-one htpc media solution out there, whereas xbmc is only a better movie player.
And i wouldn't call using mp too expensive. PCs are so damn cheap now, you can buy a really powerful system (dualcore, 4gb ram, >500 gb hdd, tv card, ...) for less than 500€, but you can also use mp on an older 200€ system. The kind of tv you buy is up to you, you can use the same one for mp and xbmc.