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Hey Keith,

I really do think we agree on more than you realise, it's really only the submission method I am worried about. So please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I mean, don't throw away the good idea just because one of the details is not agreed upon. Let me be clear that I would like auto-generated debug information to be provided for crashes.

Clearly, I totally agree. They must be generated automatically, just not submitted automatically.

It's only the automatic submission that concerns me, but hey, maybe we could give this system a trial run?

If someone would help out by coding it ...

As has been mentioned already, it's a question of time and developers. All the developers on the team have at least one project on the go. So what we really need is someone to either finish what they are working on and pick this up (and usually that only happens if they are genuinely interested in the idea), or we need a new developer to join in and lend a hand. I don't know what your commitments are, but you sound like the perfect person to work on this, because it's obviously something you feel passionately about.

If you feel that the replies from other team members have been harsh then I ask that you consider this from their point of view.

Please don't be offended by this, because it is not an attack on you:

We have seen a lot of "experts" jumping up and down on the forum demanding that certain features be implemented or that particular processes must be changed or the project will fail. A lot of the time these "experts" are professional software developers, but almost every single time they never actually offer to help.

From the teams point of view this is extremely frustrating. If a software developer was to implement even just a proof-of-concept for their idea then the chances that one of the team members would pick it up and complete it are raised dramatically.

Now, I understand that having a team member say "it's open source, you do it" sounds like a cop-out. But it's not. It's a reality. It's true that if you want something done, the best way to make that happen is to do it yourself.

It's not the only way, but it sure is the fastest.

Let me give you an example: TV Picture In Picture display (or PiP).

This idea has been around since before MediaPortal was started, and in the time I've been active in these forums I've seen it raised and discussed on many occasions. There is nothing wrong with the idea, it's a perfectly fine idea, but no-one on the team feels strongly about it one way or the other (myself included).

PiP is not a trivial feature to implement. It would take some effort. So it's not going to be done on a whim. But at the same time, no-one is actually opposed to it, per se. So you see, for PiP to become a reality we need someone who is genuinely enthusiastic about it to step up and implement it. It's as simple as that.

Can I just say that every team member is entitled to their own opinion, and if someone else in the team wanted to jump in and say that they think automatic submission is a good thing then they are entitled to. There are no "official" replies. There are only personal opinions and experiences.

Infinityloop has mentioned earlier that this idea is not new and has been discussed by the team in the past. The team has previously considered and declined the idea, that's as close to official as you will get. But that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone on the development team thinks it's a bad idea.

continued from previous quote ...

You suggest there is a lack of understanding in the development team as to exactly what you are proposing.

While I don't agree that there is a lack of understanding, as such, it is probably true that you have more experience with this sort of system than I do. Just going by what you've said and how enthusiastic you are about it.

And it is true that someone should never implement an idea they don't fully understand. Even if they think they do ...

So if it is true that there is a lack of understanding within the team then it is not the team that should implement the feature. Is that a fair statement?

What I'm getting at, and I'm not trying to be facetious, is that maybe you could help out here by implementing this idea for us to give it a trial?

I am glad you raised this issue, even though you probably feel like it has gotten nowhere. I do believe that it will result in improvements to the fault report generation and submission systems, even if it doesn't end up with the system you proposed.

I am tempted to try to implement part of the idea myself. Unfortunately I don't think I'll get the time.

And please don't let this discussion keep you from being a part of the MediaPortal community in the future. It sounds like you could be a real help to the team, I know you would find the team very welcoming if you were to implement something for the project (not necessarily this idea).

Thanks for the discussion,

<blockquote data-quote="and-81" data-source="post: 161617" data-attributes="member: 11844">Hey Keith,I really do think we agree on more than you realise, it's really only the submission method I am worried about.&nbsp; So please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.I mean, don't throw away the good idea just because one of the details is not agreed upon.&nbsp; Let me be clear that I would like auto-generated debug information to be provided for crashes.Clearly, I totally agree.&nbsp; They must be generated automatically, just not submitted automatically.It's only the automatic submission that concerns me, but hey, maybe we could give this system a trial run?If someone would help out by coding it ...As has been mentioned already, it's a question of time and developers.&nbsp; All the developers on the team have at least one project on the go.&nbsp; So what we really need is someone to either finish what they are working on and pick this up (and usually that only happens if they are genuinely interested in the idea), or we need a new developer to join in and lend a hand.&nbsp; I don't know what your commitments are, but you sound like the perfect person to work on this, because it's obviously something you feel passionately about.If you feel that the replies from other team members have been harsh then I ask that you consider this from their point of view.Please don't be offended by this, because it is not an attack on you:We have seen a lot of &quot;experts&quot; jumping up and down on the forum demanding that certain features be implemented or that particular processes must be changed or the project will fail.&nbsp; A lot of the time these &quot;experts&quot; are professional software developers, but almost every single time they never actually offer to help.From the teams point of view this is extremely frustrating.&nbsp; If a software developer was to implement even just a proof-of-concept for their idea then the chances that one of the team members would pick it up and complete it are raised dramatically.Now, I understand that having a team member say &quot;it's open source, you do it&quot; sounds like a cop-out.&nbsp; But it's not.&nbsp; It's a reality.&nbsp; It's true that if you want something done, the best way to make that happen is to do it yourself.It's not the only way, but it sure is the fastest.Let me give you an example: TV Picture In Picture display (or PiP).This idea has been around since before MediaPortal was started, and in the time I've been active in these forums I've seen it raised and discussed on many occasions.&nbsp; There is nothing wrong with the idea, it's a perfectly fine idea, but no-one on the team feels strongly about it one way or the other (myself included).PiP is not a trivial feature to implement.&nbsp; It would take some effort.&nbsp; So it's not going to be done on a whim.&nbsp; But at the same time, no-one is actually opposed to it, per se.&nbsp; So you see, for PiP to become a reality we need someone who is genuinely enthusiastic about it to step up and implement it.&nbsp; It's as simple as that.Can I just say that every team member is entitled to their own opinion, and if someone else in the team wanted to jump in and say that they think automatic submission is a good thing then they are entitled to.&nbsp; There are no &quot;official&quot; replies.&nbsp; There are only personal opinions and experiences.Infinityloop has mentioned earlier that this idea is not new and has been discussed by the team in the past.&nbsp; The team has previously considered and declined the idea, that's as close to official as you will get.&nbsp; But that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone on the development team thinks it's a bad idea.continued from previous quote ...You suggest there is a lack of understanding in the development team as to exactly what you are proposing.While I don't agree that there is a lack of understanding, as such, it is probably true that you have more experience with this sort of system than I do.&nbsp; Just going by what you've said and how enthusiastic you are about it.And it is true that someone should never implement an idea they don't fully understand.&nbsp; Even if they think they do ...So if it is true that there is a lack of understanding within the team then it is not the team that should implement the feature.&nbsp; Is that a fair statement?What I'm getting at, and I'm not trying to be facetious, is that maybe you could help out here by implementing this idea for us to give it a trial?I am glad you raised this issue, even though you probably feel like it has gotten nowhere.&nbsp; I do believe that it will result in improvements to the fault report generation and submission systems, even if it doesn't end up with the system you proposed.I am tempted to try to implement part of the idea myself.&nbsp; Unfortunately I don't think I'll get the time.And please don't let this discussion keep you from being a part of the MediaPortal community in the future.&nbsp; It sounds like you could be a real help to the team, I know you would find the team very welcoming if you were to implement something for the project (not necessarily this idea).Thanks for the discussion,</blockquote>

[QUOTE="and-81, post: 161617, member: 11844"] Hey Keith, I really do think we agree on more than you realise, it's really only the submission method I am worried about. So please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I mean, don't throw away the good idea just because one of the details is not agreed upon. Let me be clear that I would like auto-generated debug information to be provided for crashes. Clearly, I totally agree. They must be [b]generated[/b] automatically, just not [b]submitted[/b] automatically. It's only the automatic submission that concerns me, but hey, maybe we could give this system a trial run? If someone would help out by coding it ... As has been mentioned already, it's a question of time and developers. All the developers on the team have at least one project on the go. So what we really need is someone to either finish what they are working on and pick this up (and usually that only happens if they are genuinely interested in the idea), or we need a new developer to join in and lend a hand. I don't know what your commitments are, but you sound like the perfect person to work on this, because it's obviously something you feel passionately about. If you feel that the replies from other team members have been harsh then I ask that you consider this from their point of view. Please don't be offended by this, because it is not an attack on you: We have seen a lot of "experts" jumping up and down on the forum demanding that certain features be implemented or that particular processes must be changed or the project will fail. A lot of the time these "experts" are professional software developers, but almost every single time they never actually offer to help. From the teams point of view this is extremely frustrating. If a software developer was to implement even just a proof-of-concept for their idea then the chances that one of the team members would pick it up and complete it are raised dramatically. Now, I understand that having a team member say "it's open source, you do it" sounds like a cop-out. But it's not. It's a reality. It's true that if you want something done, the best way to make that happen is to do it yourself. It's not the only way, but it sure is the fastest. Let me give you an example: TV Picture In Picture display (or PiP). This idea has been around since before MediaPortal was started, and in the time I've been active in these forums I've seen it raised and discussed on many occasions. There is nothing wrong with the idea, it's a perfectly fine idea, but no-one on the team feels strongly about it one way or the other (myself included). PiP is not a trivial feature to implement. It would take some effort. So it's not going to be done on a whim. But at the same time, no-one is actually opposed to it, per se. So you see, for PiP to become a reality we need someone who is genuinely enthusiastic about it to step up and implement it. It's as simple as that. Can I just say that every team member is entitled to their own opinion, and if someone else in the team wanted to jump in and say that they think automatic submission is a good thing then they are entitled to. There are no "official" replies. There are only personal opinions and experiences. Infinityloop has mentioned earlier that this idea is not new and has been discussed by the team in the past. The team has previously considered and declined the idea, that's as close to official as you will get. But that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone on the development team thinks it's a bad idea. [b]continued from previous quote ...[/b] You suggest there is a lack of understanding in the development team as to exactly what you are proposing. While I don't agree that there is a lack of understanding, as such, it is probably true that you have more experience with this sort of system than I do. Just going by what you've said and how enthusiastic you are about it. And it is true that someone should never implement an idea they don't fully understand. Even if they think they do ... So if it is true that there is a lack of understanding within the team then it is not the team that should implement the feature. Is that a fair statement? What I'm getting at, and I'm not trying to be facetious, is that maybe you could help out here by implementing this idea for us to give it a trial? I am glad you raised this issue, even though you probably feel like it has gotten nowhere. I do believe that it will result in improvements to the fault report generation and submission systems, even if it doesn't end up with the system you proposed. I am tempted to try to implement part of the idea myself. Unfortunately I don't think I'll get the time. And please don't let this discussion keep you from being a part of the MediaPortal community in the future. It sounds like you could be a real help to the team, I know you would find the team very welcoming if you were to implement something for the project (not necessarily this idea). Thanks for the discussion, [/QUOTE]