Cannot Delete a TV Program (1 Viewer)

David Abineri

Portal Pro
July 19, 2011
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I have several things happening with my MP 1.9 that I hope someone can help with.

1. I have a recorded program that it says it CANNOT DELETE. I have fixed the data base but this did not help. Log is attached.

2. Programs set to record do not always record. Why would this be? Never happened until recently.

3. What gets recorded (single seat) when two programs are scheduled to record at the same time?

4. How do I confirm the version that I believe I have installed?

Win 7, MP 1.9, Hauppage Colossus, Schedules Direct

Many thanks for any help on these. Dave
 

mm1352000

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    Hello David

    1. I have a recorded program that it says it CANNOT DELETE. I have fixed the data base but this did not help. Log is attached.
    It looks like the log is saying that the file is marked as read-only.

    2. Programs set to record do not always record. Why would this be? Never happened until recently.
    Without any example - date, time, channel name, program name, log files - that's an impossible question.

    3. What gets recorded (single seat) when two programs are scheduled to record at the same time?
    Ummm, usually both programs... :confused:
    ...or are you saying you only have one tuner to record with, therefore there is a conflict?
    If that is the case, as far as I am aware the answer is that there is no answer. The choice about which program to record is non-deterministic. In other words, there is no [obvious] logic that will explain/predict which program is chosen to record. One program will be recorded; one won't.

    4. How do I confirm the version that I believe I have installed?
    So many ways. To name a few:
    • The splash screen when you open MediaPortal shows the version number.
    • The welcome/project pages in MediaPortal configuration and TV Server configuration show the version number.
    • Look at the version numbers on the files in the MediaPortal and TV Server install folders.
    • Look at the first few lines in the MediaPortal.log or TVService.log files.

    Regards,
    mm
     

    dabineri

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    February 16, 2013
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    Thanks for the quick reply mm.

    How would a recorded program become marked as Read only?
    how do I change this setting so that I can delete it?
    Or is there a way to manually delete it.

    Many thanks, Dave
     

    mm1352000

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    How would a recorded program become marked as Read only?
    No idea.

    how do I change this setting so that I can delete it?
    Well, it isn't a MediaPortal setting. It is a file property. Any file on your PC can be marked read-only by Windows.
    Right click on the file in Windows file explorer, select properties. On the general tab, untick the read-only attribute at the bottom.

    Or is there a way to manually delete it.
    Use Windows file explorer to delete the file.
     

    David Abineri

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    July 19, 2011
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    mm, When I look at my hard drive the program in question does not show anywhere, in any of the folders.

    Is this perhaps why it can't delete, because it's in the data base but does not exit?

    If so, how do I adjust the data base?

    Thanks, Dave
     

    mm1352000

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    Is this perhaps why it can't delete, because it's in the data base but does not exit?
    Possibly, in which case you'd have to ask yourself how that could have happened.

    If so, how do I adjust the data base?
    In TV Server configuration, recording section, import tab:
    http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_...er_Configuration/07_Recording#Database_import

    Use the remove invalid entries function. Note that will remove all recordings that don't have a matching file on disk, not just the one you're looking at.
     

    David Abineri

    Portal Pro
    July 19, 2011
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    Thanks agin mm.

    I have no idea how it happened as I have just been using MP in the usual way unless a power failure or computer shut down and restart might cause this to happen.

    I am really curious about the algorithm that MP uses when confronted with two programs to record at the same time. It must have some definitive way of deciding which to record. Is there someone associated with MP whom I might ask about this question.

    Also, on the same lines, a suggested feature for MP is to catch this when scheduling so the one knows for sure which will record. In other words, why not catch the fact that two programs are scheduled at the same time or overlapping times and prevent the user from doing this to begin with. I don't know if this is possible but this happens inadvertently since the user does not see all the programs being aired at a givn time, just a subset that appears on the screen.

    I would like to follow up on this basic question is there is someone I might ask.

    Thanks, Dave
     

    mm1352000

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    Hello again David

    I have no idea how it happened as I have just been using MP in the usual way unless a power failure or computer shut down and restart might cause this to happen.
    I also have no idea, and without log files and recording details I can't go back and check the recording process etc.

    I am really curious about the algorithm that MP uses when confronted with two programs to record at the same time. It must have some definitive way of deciding which to record. Is there someone associated with MP whom I might ask about this question.
    I'm probably the team member who is the most familiar with the workings of TV Server. If you want to ask somebody else that is fine, but for the record...

    As I already said, there is no algorithm and no definitive way. Period.
    You're expected to resolve conflicts by cancelling schedules or episodes as required. If you choose not to resolve conflicts then as far as I'm concerned there are even chances on each recording being performed.

    Again in another way: the TV Server recorder doesn't actively handle this situation. Once a schedule is created, the recorder blindly attempts to record according to the schedule. It doesn't check for conflicts. Heck, it doesn't even know what a conflict is!

    Yes, it is possible that the recorder is more prone to record certain schedules in a conflict situation. For example, it might record the schedule that was created first. However, that would be pure chance. It is not something that we actively designed into the logic. Such a "tendency" may or may not exist. If such a tendency did exist you would need to find it yourself by examining the code. Of course, the code is subject to change at any time. Therefore any undesigned behaviour could also change at any time.

    Also, on the same lines, a suggested feature for MP is to catch this when scheduling so the one knows for sure which will record.
    This feature already exists and should work. If you're not seeing that happen with your Colossus then it is possible that it is due to your configuration. In particular, your channel configuration. To detect a conflict, TV Server has to be able to work out that the corresponding channels can't be simultaneously viewed/recorded with the available tuners. If TV Server thinks there are not going to be enough tuners available at that time then you should get a warning when you create the schedule. Otherwise you won't get a warning.

    In other words, why not catch the fact that two programs are scheduled at the same time or overlapping times and prevent the user from doing this to begin with. I don't know if this is possible but this happens inadvertently since the user does not see all the programs being aired at a givn time, just a subset that appears on the screen.
    As above. It is possible, and actually even implemented.

    I would like to follow up on this basic question is there is someone I might ask.
    Without meaning to blow my own trumpet, there's no other active team member I can think of who is more qualified/knowledgeable about TV Server than myself. If you can't or won't accept my answer then I don't think I can help you further, because if you don't trust my answer then I don't know whose answer you will trust.

    Regards,
    mm
     

    dabineri

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    February 16, 2013
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    mm, When you said that there was no answer to my conflict question I had, incorrectly, assumed that this was not your area of expertise and perhaps another person might know the answer. My apologies for this miscommunication, it definitely sounds like you are the person to speak to on this issue.

    I will see if I can find the channel configuration item that warns of conflicts. Will this warning show when setting a show to be recorded that is in conflict with another? I do have just one tuner. What did you mean when you said that MP does not know what a conflict is if it does in fact issue such warnings?

    In just trying to understand the non choice that the program is making when two shows are scheduled simultaneously, is it like requesting the data for, say, 9m, from the data base and taking the first item returned without looking to see if there are other shows also scheduled for 9pm?

    Sorry for all the questions but the internal workings of MP are interesting and you and your team do a fantastic job with the program.

    Thanks again,
    Dave
     

    mm1352000

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    Hello again Dave

    I will see if I can find the channel configuration item that warns of conflicts.
    The channel configuration thing I spoke of was not in the form of an option to turn conflict warning on or off.
    Rather, in order to detect conflicts TV Server has to be able to look at the channel tuning details and determine that the two channels can't be viewed recorded at the same time.

    In short, please post screenshots of the tuning details for a few of your channels.
    The screenshots should look like this:
    http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/@api/deki/files/2582/=Tuning_detail_1_Analog-TV.png


    Will this warning show when setting a show to be recorded that is in conflict with another?
    Yes it should when it is working correctly.

    I do have just one tuner.
    Okay.

    What did you mean when you said that MP does not know what a conflict is if it does in fact issue such warnings?
    I said the recorder does not know. That is a deliberate choice of words.
    When you go to create a schedule the TV plugin first checks for conflicts. If it finds any you should get a warning and a choice about how to resolve the conflict(s). This point is critical because no other part of TV Server - including the recorder - knows about conflicts. Once you create the schedule TV Server assumes there are no conflicts with it, because you've had the option to resolve them. One of the options in the warning is to ignore the conflicts and create the schedule anyway, and if you choose to do that then you're expected to resolve the conflicts manually by cancelling episodes as required.

    In just trying to understand the non choice that the program is making when two shows are scheduled simultaneously, is it like requesting the data for, say, 9m, from the data base and taking the first item returned without looking to see if there are other shows also scheduled for 9pm?
    No. The TV plugin definitely checks for other schedules at the same time. However, it will only raise a warning if it thinks it doesn't have enough tuners to handle all of the schedules. That point - whether enough cards are available or not - is the point where I think you're missing out. I suspect you channel tuning details are configured in such a way that TV Server thinks it can view/record all of them at the same time with your one tuner (!!!).

    Sorry for all the questions but the internal workings of MP are interesting and you and your team do a fantastic job with the program.
    Aww, shucks - you're too kind! Thanks. :)

    Best regards,
    mm
     

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