Dual tuner dvb-s2 on single CI slot? (1 Viewer)

[DjeC64]

I got my CineS2. I set it up like the floppyDTV.

- No preload
- Stop mode
- 1 CAM per Tuner set to astoncrypt
- DVBS mode
- No disceq
- CAM Astoncrypt (2.18)

CI is accessed by the SetupTV

I can get unscramble channels to work. But all scrambled are not decrypted. Here is my logs. I seen that people are able to work with Astoncrypt and CineS2 for TV Vlaanderen. However that does not work for me. Here are my logs.

 

[DjeC64]

mm1352000, congratulation for the cup !

I hope you are not suffering from headaches now Did you have a look at my logs? I send this info to DD support as well. I tried without success to test CAM on single tuner. Everytime the card fails to tune encrypted channels. Could you hint if it is a driver problem or TSwriter?

 

[babelfish]

Hm, but then maybe the wiki entry is mis-leading, since it states the CI module itself can only decrypt one channel at a time.

The wiki is written from the perspective of tuners, not CAMs. I don't find it confusing, but if you do then other people will too. We could add a note saying that Digital Devices tuners allow CAMs to be shared - would that clarify things for you?

mm

Pardon me for saying so but the wiki is not confusing it is plain wrong. " The Digital Devices CI module can only descramble ONE channel at the time! Even if your CAM could do more."

It's just wrong as the CI module can descramble a number of channels at the same time. To Claim that this is from a single tuner perspective is no valid unless it's explicitly mentioned, and it's not. The fact that all these units come with two or more tuners make the entry in the wiki even more off base.

I suggest a rewrite clearifying this as A LOT of peopel got this the wrong way on various forums all over the net.
The ability to scramble more than one channel at the same frequency is nice but not very important as there is generally few channels of interest on the same frequency. The ability to scramble more than one tuner is for most users so much more important and should be emphasised, not mentioned.

 

[DjeC64]

I started a new thread in Improvement suggestion for the support of Cine S2. Basically the cine S2 is multiple decrypting but only once per tuner. SO theoretically it can descramble 2 channels using both tuners and a single CAM (if dual). This is the so-called MTD implementation in the card driver. However it has the limitation to require MTD compatible CAM which restricts the choice of CAM.
In my case the Astoncrypt card which is dual decoding capable is unfortunately not compatible with their implementation. So dual decoding does not work even on single transponder.

So I am not sure at which level a workaround can be found driver or MP but I would like to have dual decoding capability with following scenarii:
- on same transponder using 1 tuner and 1 CAM (a la FloppyDTV)
- on different transponders using both tuners and same single CAM (MTD implementation)
- on same transponder using both tuner and 1 CAM (aka STD like implementation)

https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...ltiple-decrypting-mtd-astoncrypt-dual-101971/

I hope MP dev. can work together with DD to address those issues.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi babelfish

Pardon me for saying so but the wiki is not confusing it is plain wrong. " The Digital Devices CI module can only descramble ONE channel at the time! Even if your CAM could do more."

It's just wrong as the CI module can descramble a number of channels at the same time. To Claim that this is from a single tuner perspective is no valid unless it's explicitly mentioned, and it's not. The fact that all these units come with two or more tuners make the entry in the wiki even more off base.

While I'd agree that the text in the remarks column was not helpful (I don't know who added it), perhaps you could have read the description of the feature. It said:

Multi channel decoding

Multi channel decoding allows you to view/record multiple TV channels with just 1 TV card. The TV channels must be located on the same transponder of course since the card can only tune to 1 transponder at the same time.

To be able to use multi channel decoding, your TV Card and your CAM must support it.

That seems pretty clear and correct to me. It is true that each DD tuner can only decrypt one channel at a time, hence to say that DD tuners do not support multichannel decoding is true and correct.

I suggest a rewrite clearifying this as A LOT of peopel got this the wrong way on various forums all over the net.

I must say that I get a little tired of hearing only complaints and requests. You do know that you can create an account and submit changes right? You can also comment on the bottom of each wiki page. I think either of those options would be more helpful.

The ability to scramble more than one tuner is for most users so much more important and should be emphasised, not mentioned.

That is not a MediaPortal feature though! What you're talking about is a Digital Devices feature (multidecrypt, also called MTD - I'd call it CAM sharing) which is completely different to our "multichannel decryption" feature. Digital Devices are the only company that I know that makes cards that can share a CAM and the functionality is implemented in their drivers. It is impossible for us to implement CAM sharing for other cards. I don't think it is appropriate for us to list this as a feature of MediaPortal.

The ability to scramble more than one channel at the same frequency is nice but not very important as there is generally few channels of interest on the same frequency.

Maybe so for you but I'm sure not for everyone, else why were/are the FloppyDTV cards so popular? Further, multi-channel decryption is a feature that we have to support so I think it is very appropriate for us to include it in our wiki.

mm

 

[mm1352000]

Hi DjeC64

I've been taking a much needed break from MP work so I'm sorry I have not looked at your logs.

I started a new thread in Improvement suggestion for the support of Cine S2. Basically the cine S2 is multiple decrypting but only once per tuner. SO theoretically it can descramble 2 channels using both tuners and a single CAM (if dual). This is the so-called MTD implementation in the card driver. However it has the limitation to require MTD compatible CAM which restricts the choice of CAM.
In my case the Astoncrypt card which is dual decoding capable is unfortunately not compatible with their implementation. So dual decoding does not work even on single transponder.

So I am not sure at which level a workaround can be found driver or MP but I would like to have dual decoding capability with following scenarii:
- on same transponder using 1 tuner and 1 CAM (a la FloppyDTV)
- on different transponders using both tuners and same single CAM (MTD implementation)
- on same transponder using both tuner and 1 CAM (aka STD like implementation)

https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...ltiple-decrypting-mtd-astoncrypt-dual-101971/

I hope MP dev. can work together with DD to address those issues.

I think you need to be very clear about where the limitations and features are implemented. At the lowest level, the limit is in the CAM and its firmware. You said that your CAM can decrypt multiple channels simultaneously - okay. The tuner driver is the next possible bottleneck. It must provide a way for the higher software (like MP or DVBViewer) to tell the CAM to decrypt multiple channels. DD do not provide any way for us to do that so the bottleneck is there. If DD implemented "STD" support then I think their tuners would be pretty unbeatable. We would implement support as soon as we got the required information from them. I suspect that they haven't implemented it since it is impossible or very difficult to include with their implementation of MTD.

mm

 

[babelfish]

While I'd agree that the text in the remarks column was not helpful (I don't know who added it), perhaps you could have read the description of the feature. It said:

Multi channel decoding

Multi channel decoding allows you to view/record multiple TV channels with just 1 TV card. The TV channels must be located on the same transponder of course since the card can only tune to 1 transponder at the same time.

To be able to use multi channel decoding, your TV Card and your CAM must support it.

That seems pretty clear and correct to me. It is true that each DD tuner can only decrypt one channel at a time, hence to say that DD tuners do not support multichannel decoding is true and correct.

Well, that's about "decoding" the signal from a multiplexed signal on a carrier frequnecy. We are talking about decrypting allready "decoded" data and that IS something different, not?
Besides I suspect you had a spelling error when you said the DD tuner only decrypt one channel? I guess it should have been "decode"?
Besides the text you quote are aslo wrong when it assume one card = one tuner. Most or all DD tuner cards have two tuners and some can be linked together on the same "main board" increasing the mumber of possible tuners to 4 or 6 with SI connected (6 or 8 without an SI)
The wiki does not take this into consideration and use outdated asumptions.

I must say that I get a little tired of hearing only complaints and requests. You do know that you can create an account and submit changes right? You can also comment on the bottom of each wiki page. I think either of those options would be more helpful.

So, barly able to admitt that the description was plain wrong you choose to moan about those pointing it out.
No I can't comment, No I can't submit changes. I have no rights for this with my common accout. And Finally, No i do not consider myself knowledgefull enough to start editing such documents as I there are lots of big holes in my knowledge here ( I would just make an arse out of my self by putting in plain wrong statements).
I do contribute other places quite a lot but never, ever do pull the "I do this for free so stop complaining and start contributing yourself"

That is not a MediaPortal feature though! What you're talking about is a Digital Devices feature (multidecrypt, also called MTD - I'd call it CAM sharing) which is completely different to our "multichannel decryption" feature. Digital Devices are the only company that I know that makes cards that can share a CAM and the functionality is implemented in their drivers. It is impossible for us to implement CAM sharing for other cards. I don't think it is appropriate for us to list this as a feature of MediaPortal.

I suspect your spelling slipped again as I assume you are talking MP's ability to do multi decoding not decrypting? Just follwing the latest updates on the Wiki here.
I thought this section decribed software AND hardware features? I find both features most relevant for the wiki. I gues the best solution could be to add a column in the table to add MTD ability?

Dedicated PVR's have had multi tuners connected to the same CI for years. Nothing new there. But we have been drooling

The ability to scramble more than one channel at the same frequency is nice but not very important as there is generally few channels of interest on the same frequency.

Maybe so for you but I'm sure not for everyone, else why were/are the FloppyDTV cards so popular? Further, multi-channel decryption is a feature that we have to support so I think it is very appropriate for us to include it in our wiki.
mm

Is that the only reason you supose FloppyDTV is popular? This feature were hardly known when I bought my card. The choise were easy as 9 of 10 recommended it. That's how most people choose low volume items like this: word of mouth.
Even when I was informed about the multi decoding ability several people inisited that this was a miracle machine decoding and descrambling any channel on the same satelite and provider. Not a very limitied feature where only channels on the same channel were available.

Finally a couple of questions:
- You say that channels on the same transponder can be decoded/descrambeld at the same time.
I have allways assumed that Transponder = LNB. a Quad LNB would be A Quad transponder ( but in my terminology still one transponder). From what you say that doesn't make much sense. Is one transponder = one frequency (and possibly some Hor/Ver polarisation shit I never came around to check out)?
- I assume decoding is about getting a pure data signal off a polarized, multiplexed carrier frequnecy, is that right?
- Decrypting/descrambling, is that done in the actual tuner or are there dedicated circuits for this after the tuner and by lack of multituners systems it's become part of the tuner for simplicity?

 

[mylle]

babelfish

You have only 11 posts on this forum so far and already are you bein rude to MM which has contributed so much to the development of the MP tv-server. He ALWAYS goes out of his way to help people out and i have never seen him lose patience with less experienced users.

I really feel that your harsh tone is totally uncalled for and think you should reconsider your wording on this forum in the future!

/Mylle

 

[babelfish]

@babelfish

You have only 11 posts on this forum so far and already are you bein rude to MM which has contributed so much to the development of the MP tv-server. He ALWAYS goes out of his way to help people out and i have never seen him lose patience with less experienced users.

I really feel that your harsh tone is totally uncalled for and think you should reconsider your wording on this forum in the future!

/Mylle

Sorry if the words seems harsh, that was no at all the intention. I started out just pointing out a more than obvious fact: The CI of the DD system does indeed decrypt more than one channel and the Wiki was plain wrong. I fail to see whats rude in that.
The only rude words I've seen so far is the

I must say that I get a little tired of hearing only complaints and requests. You do know that you can create an account and submit changes right? You can also comment on the bottom of each wiki page. I think either of those options would be more helpful.

They are so not called for. First of all I obviously can't neither comment or contribute as I don't have the access rights, and secondly, getting barked at for pointing out obvious errors is just about as smart as yelling at alpha and beta testers reporting bugs. So pardon me, but the harsh words didn't start with me.
While doing things for free and being helpful is admirable it does not free one from neither making mistakes nor accepting faults. Being those faults are your own or others.
mm go out of his way to make me look like the rude and naughty one using all kind of irelevant arguments for a "defense" no one called for. I don't know who wrote the faulty words regarding the CI but it is a fact that I've seen those same words repeated in other forums, arguing the lack of multi channel decrypting by the DD system. They also refered to the Wiki and with a "NO" in Multi Channel Decoding anyone but the specialists would assume only one channel could be decrypted and streamed from any DD system. The fact is that several installations run MP with no less than four simultaniously streaming channels, all from different frequencies and all from scrambeled channels. That's why I find the Wiki documentation to be of somewhat importance as this is the first system that HTPC builders can use without multiple code-cards or illegal card sharing but the documentation go a long way in trying to prove the opposite. A lot of users of MP tv-server are tied down with some kind of encryption systems and I feel, hell, I KNOW that a small note at the bottom is something most will miss or just add to the confusion, and mm will be stuck patiently explaining what team-MedaiPortal consider to be multi-deCoding/deCrypting/deScrambling. The significance and difference between multiChannelDecoding and MultiChannelDecrypting is not at all obvious and leaving it as it is in the Wiki, even after the later adjustments is not informing very well on the DD cards abilitys, allthough it does clear up the difference between multi-decoding and decrypting abilities. The problem, I feel, is that the definition of multiChannelDecoding is hard to get. With the entry of multi tuner cards those there seems to be a few definitions that need a rewrite.

 

[mylle]

I agree that the multi-deCoding/deCrypting/deScrambling is not easy to explain.

Im sure MM can help you get access to the wiki so that you can help rewrite some of the faulty information, save him some time and contribute to the project!

Regards
Mylle