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<blockquote data-quote="Kotik" data-source="post: 1198481" data-attributes="member: 89825"><p>So latest info.</p><p></p><p>I resolved the No Signal error by a fresh installation of MP which resulted in fresh satellites positions. I also was able to find out why the dish would move to the wrong direction "randomly",</p><p>it is not random after all, if <strong><em>while</em></strong> MP TV Service is running u move the dish manually or with another program and then instruct MP to move the dish to a predefined position then the motor is getting confused as a result the dish will move half way or move to a wrong direction. In order to avoid this issue i am now always stopping TV Service if i want to micro adjust the dish manually.</p><p></p><p>I also finally fully understand why i am getting a No PMT Found error.</p><p></p><p>Correct me if i am wrong.</p><p></p><p>I tested 2 cards and both had issues regarding DiseqC motor within MP, both are actually moving the dish perfectly fine!</p><p></p><p>But they both fail when it comes to channel switching. It all comes down to the LockInOnSignal time out implementation of the manufacturer.</p><p></p><p>1. SkystarHD2, has a short time out, meaning, it would give up trying to lock in very fast. As so it would always result in a No Signal error that left the user with the ability to re tune the same channel one more time and be able to successfully watch TV.</p><p></p><p>2. TBS 6902, has a huge time out, meaning,it will fight till the end (actually till it finds signal<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />) As a result it is prone into reporting a successful Lock On the moment it finds a similar frequency with the one it is actually being instructed to search for. This part is beyond me since i don't know exactly the method being used to LockInOn signal. The reason for that is either cause the tuner doesn't get strict information regarding its new tuning details, or because these details are not meant to be sent to the tuner before the tuner actually arrives to the proper position. As a result the tuner will lock on a totally wrong position while the dish is still moving and will report to MP a successful LockInOn, the moment MP receives this info it will start looking for PMT but there wont be any PMT to be found cause the dish is still moving. </p><p></p><p>To prove this theory i added two satellites that are far away from each other, this way i would increase the chances of TBS locking into the wrong satellite frequency, so i went for 35.9E and 19.2E, i then measured the time my motor needs to cover this distance by sending a simple GoToX command manually from the MP DiseqC motor tab and observing the dish movement, the result is 12 seconds. I then instructed Mp to switch to a channel from 35.9E to 19.2E, if my theory was right then the Lock On would appear in tv server logs earlier than the 12 second mark, this would indicate that the lock on happened at the wrong position and during dish movement. Below are the results:</p><p></p><p></p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs: Tune<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />VBS:tv:BetaDigital DMAX Freq:12480000 ONID:133 TSID:33 SID:63 PMT:0x6C FTA:True LCN:10000 SymbolRate:27500 Modulation:ModNotSet Polarisation:LinearV InnerFecRate:Rate3_4 DisEqc:None band:Universal Pilot:NotSet RollOff:NotSet</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs: Tune<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />VBS:tv:BetaDigital DMAX Freq:12480000 ONID:133 TSID:33 SID:63 PMT:0x6C FTA:True LCN:10000 SymbolRate:27500 Modulation:ModNotSet Polarisation:LinearV InnerFecRate:Rate3_4 DisEqc:None band:Universal Pilot:NotSet RollOff:NotSet</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:GetNewSubChannel:0 #0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - TvDvbChannel ctor new subchIndex:0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - card: AddTuneEvent card: 4 / subch: 0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - LNB low:9750 hi:10600 switch:11700</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 modulation set to:ModNotDefined</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 Pilot set to:NotSet</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 RollOff set to:NotSet</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 fec set to:Rate3_4</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs:channel modulation is set to ModNotDefined</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs:channel FECRate is set to Rate3_4</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed: already no diseqc used</p><p><u><strong>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,878] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - DiSEqC: goto position 3</strong></u></p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:41,972] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed: setdiseqc returned:0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:42,175] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed: setdiseqc returned:0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" />ubmiting tunerequest Channel<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />MAX subChannel:0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:using existing subchannel:0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" />ubmit tunerequest size:1 new:0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnBeforeTune</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" />ubmit tunerequest calling put_TuneRequest</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" />ubmit tunerequest done calling put_TuneRequest</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnAfterTune</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - RunGraph</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnGraphStart</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb: RunGraph</p><p><strong><u>[2016-10-18 13:00:45,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb: LockInOnSignal ok</u></strong></p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:45,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnGraphStarted</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:45,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 SetupPmtGrabber<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />id 6C sid:3F</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:45,769] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 set pmt grabber pmt:6C sid:3F</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:45,769] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - TimeShifter.OnAfterTune: resetting audio/video time</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:45,769] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Waiting for PMT 6C</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Timed out waiting for PMT after 10.0010931 seconds. Increase the PMT timeout value?</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - Setting to 0 to search for new PMT.</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 SetupPmtGrabber<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />id 0 sid:3F</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 set pmt grabber pmt:0 sid:3F</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - TimeShifter.OnAfterTune: resetting audio/video time</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:00:55,786] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Waiting for PMT 0</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:01:05,787] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Timed out waiting for PMT after 10.0010899 seconds. Increase the PMT timeout value?</p><p>[2016-10-18 13:01:05,787] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - Setting to 0 to search for new PMT.</p><p></p><p>As u can see the tuner locked on approximately 5 seconds after the <strong><u>DiSEqC: goto position 3</u></strong> which confirms my theory.</p><p></p><p>After saying all that i got some questions:</p><p></p><p>1. Are there any other cards out there that are using a somehow different logic regarding the LockInOn mechanism? Cause as u can see Low Time Out will result in No Signal and High Time Out will result in No PMT, so i would like to know is there another way? In our Wiki we list some TBS cards that are working with DiseqC motor, i would love to know how? cause one thing is for sure, MP behavior remains the same no matter the card. MP will send tune request 250ms right after the GoToX command. The only other possible mechanism i can think of that would work is if the card would re check signal status 500ms after initial lock and if signal is found still stable it would THEN report a successful lock, otherwise it would try to re lock.</p><p></p><p>2. Are u sure that adding a delay would solve these issues? The delay would then have to be dynamic and depend on the degree difference between the satellites of the two channels. Adding a small static delay would improve the issue between satellites that are located close to each other, but would it NOT also increase tune times between channels located on the same satellite? </p><p></p><p>Thanx in advance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kotik, post: 1198481, member: 89825"] So latest info. I resolved the No Signal error by a fresh installation of MP which resulted in fresh satellites positions. I also was able to find out why the dish would move to the wrong direction "randomly", it is not random after all, if [B][I]while[/I][/B] MP TV Service is running u move the dish manually or with another program and then instruct MP to move the dish to a predefined position then the motor is getting confused as a result the dish will move half way or move to a wrong direction. In order to avoid this issue i am now always stopping TV Service if i want to micro adjust the dish manually. I also finally fully understand why i am getting a No PMT Found error. Correct me if i am wrong. I tested 2 cards and both had issues regarding DiseqC motor within MP, both are actually moving the dish perfectly fine! But they both fail when it comes to channel switching. It all comes down to the LockInOnSignal time out implementation of the manufacturer. 1. SkystarHD2, has a short time out, meaning, it would give up trying to lock in very fast. As so it would always result in a No Signal error that left the user with the ability to re tune the same channel one more time and be able to successfully watch TV. 2. TBS 6902, has a huge time out, meaning,it will fight till the end (actually till it finds signal:)) As a result it is prone into reporting a successful Lock On the moment it finds a similar frequency with the one it is actually being instructed to search for. This part is beyond me since i don't know exactly the method being used to LockInOn signal. The reason for that is either cause the tuner doesn't get strict information regarding its new tuning details, or because these details are not meant to be sent to the tuner before the tuner actually arrives to the proper position. As a result the tuner will lock on a totally wrong position while the dish is still moving and will report to MP a successful LockInOn, the moment MP receives this info it will start looking for PMT but there wont be any PMT to be found cause the dish is still moving. To prove this theory i added two satellites that are far away from each other, this way i would increase the chances of TBS locking into the wrong satellite frequency, so i went for 35.9E and 19.2E, i then measured the time my motor needs to cover this distance by sending a simple GoToX command manually from the MP DiseqC motor tab and observing the dish movement, the result is 12 seconds. I then instructed Mp to switch to a channel from 35.9E to 19.2E, if my theory was right then the Lock On would appear in tv server logs earlier than the 12 second mark, this would indicate that the lock on happened at the wrong position and during dish movement. Below are the results: [2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs: Tune:DVBS:tv:BetaDigital DMAX Freq:12480000 ONID:133 TSID:33 SID:63 PMT:0x6C FTA:True LCN:10000 SymbolRate:27500 Modulation:ModNotSet Polarisation:LinearV InnerFecRate:Rate3_4 DisEqc:None band:Universal Pilot:NotSet RollOff:NotSet [2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs: Tune:DVBS:tv:BetaDigital DMAX Freq:12480000 ONID:133 TSID:33 SID:63 PMT:0x6C FTA:True LCN:10000 SymbolRate:27500 Modulation:ModNotSet Polarisation:LinearV InnerFecRate:Rate3_4 DisEqc:None band:Universal Pilot:NotSet RollOff:NotSet [2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:GetNewSubChannel:0 #0 [2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - TvDvbChannel ctor new subchIndex:0 [2016-10-18 13:00:41,722] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - card: AddTuneEvent card: 4 / subch: 0 [2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - LNB low:9750 hi:10600 switch:11700 [2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 modulation set to:ModNotDefined [2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 Pilot set to:NotSet [2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 RollOff set to:NotSet [2016-10-18 13:00:41,737] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed DVB-S2 fec set to:Rate3_4 [2016-10-18 13:00:41,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs:channel modulation is set to ModNotDefined [2016-10-18 13:00:41,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvbs:channel FECRate is set to Rate3_4 [2016-10-18 13:00:41,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed: already no diseqc used [U][B][2016-10-18 13:00:41,878] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - DiSEqC: goto position 3[/B][/U] [2016-10-18 13:00:41,972] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed: setdiseqc returned:0 [2016-10-18 13:00:42,175] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - ProfRed: setdiseqc returned:0 [2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:Submiting tunerequest Channel:DMAX subChannel:0 [2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:using existing subchannel:0 [2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:Submit tunerequest size:1 new:0 [2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnBeforeTune [2016-10-18 13:00:42,284] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:Submit tunerequest calling put_TuneRequest [2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb:Submit tunerequest done calling put_TuneRequest [2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnAfterTune [2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - RunGraph [2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnGraphStart [2016-10-18 13:00:44,613] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb: RunGraph [B][U][2016-10-18 13:00:45,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - dvb: LockInOnSignal ok[/U][/B] [2016-10-18 13:00:45,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 OnGraphStarted [2016-10-18 13:00:45,753] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 SetupPmtGrabber:pid 6C sid:3F [2016-10-18 13:00:45,769] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 set pmt grabber pmt:6C sid:3F [2016-10-18 13:00:45,769] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - TimeShifter.OnAfterTune: resetting audio/video time [2016-10-18 13:00:45,769] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Waiting for PMT 6C [2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Timed out waiting for PMT after 10.0010931 seconds. Increase the PMT timeout value? [2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - Setting to 0 to search for new PMT. [2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 SetupPmtGrabber:pid 0 sid:3F [2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [INFO ] - subch:0 set pmt grabber pmt:0 sid:3F [2016-10-18 13:00:55,770] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - TimeShifter.OnAfterTune: resetting audio/video time [2016-10-18 13:00:55,786] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Waiting for PMT 0 [2016-10-18 13:01:05,787] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - WaitForPMT: Timed out waiting for PMT after 10.0010899 seconds. Increase the PMT timeout value? [2016-10-18 13:01:05,787] [Log ] [20 ] [DEBUG] - Setting to 0 to search for new PMT. As u can see the tuner locked on approximately 5 seconds after the [B][U]DiSEqC: goto position 3[/U][/B] which confirms my theory. [B][/B] After saying all that i got some questions: 1. Are there any other cards out there that are using a somehow different logic regarding the LockInOn mechanism? Cause as u can see Low Time Out will result in No Signal and High Time Out will result in No PMT, so i would like to know is there another way? In our Wiki we list some TBS cards that are working with DiseqC motor, i would love to know how? cause one thing is for sure, MP behavior remains the same no matter the card. MP will send tune request 250ms right after the GoToX command. The only other possible mechanism i can think of that would work is if the card would re check signal status 500ms after initial lock and if signal is found still stable it would THEN report a successful lock, otherwise it would try to re lock. 2. Are u sure that adding a delay would solve these issues? The delay would then have to be dynamic and depend on the degree difference between the satellites of the two channels. Adding a small static delay would improve the issue between satellites that are located close to each other, but would it NOT also increase tune times between channels located on the same satellite? Thanx in advance. [/QUOTE]
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