DVB S/S2 cards on legacy PCI interface. (1 Viewer)

Kotik

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    I need some help / info regarding running a DVBS2 card on a mobo that has legacy pci interface.
    I decided that it was about time and went ahead with my TV Server hardware upgrade. I am running my TV Server in a small mini itx tower and got my dvbs2 and 4 disks connected to it. Everything was working fine on my old MSI industrial mobo that i now found out has Native PCI support. But i have to replace it cause it supports up to max 2GB ram which as u can understand is not enough for any modern OS.

    So i went ahead and got a GA-N3150N-D3V which supports 8GB of ram, 4 sata ports, 2 lan ports and has a pci interface. I finally founda replacement that fits my needs. Or i thought so... after a fresh windows installation i went ahead to see how fast is channel switching with this mobo, i found out that TV is not working as expected, picture is heavily pixelated and sound is clicking, even radio channels are not working properly. I started searching why, cause the signal indicator is showing full strengh and normal quality.

    Well it seems that my new mobo doesnt have a native PCI interface, instead it is using a PCI to PCIe bridge chip since Intel dropped Native PCI support a long time ago.....
    My question to u guys, anyone else had a similar issue in the past and if yes what u did to over come it? I could RMA the mobo but i am afraid that getting a replacement wont improve the situation.
    Thanx in advance.
     

    Kotik

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    Already did. Unfortunatelly my mobo doesnt have these options. It is gonna be RMA time for me. Currently looking for a replacement.
    Thanx for the info.
     

    mm1352000

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    It is gonna be RMA time for me. Currently looking for a replacement.
    Well that was super fast.

    It is a huge assumption to think that the cause of the problem is that the PCI interface is not native to the chipset. There are many other possible causes for the described symptoms. If you haven't already RMA'd it, I'd recommend to make a short but logical/methodical investigation before RMA'ing. I'm 80+ % confident that the problem is nothing to do with the PCI interface. PCI problems would be one of the last possibilities on my list. It's a good idea to check the more likely possibilities first... ;)
     

    Kotik

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    It is gonna be RMA time for me. Currently looking for a replacement.
    Well that was super fast.

    It is a huge assumption to think that the cause of the problem is that the PCI interface is not native to the chipset. There are many other possible causes for the described symptoms. If you haven't already RMA'd it, I'd recommend to make a short but logical/methodical investigation before RMA'ing. I'm 80+ % confident that the problem is nothing to do with the PCI interface. PCI problems would be one of the last possibilities on my list. It's a good idea to check the more likely possibilities first... ;)
    Well its not fast actually, prior posting this issue i spent 2 straight days troubleshooting and reading various forums. Meanwhile i did 2 fresh windows installations, 7 x64 and 8 x64 to try out different environments, also tried out different software (dvb dream, progdvb) and no matter what i tried gave me the same results, heavily pixelated picture with sound hiccups. It is 99% the current PCI to PCIe bridge.

    Capture.JPG Capture.JPG

    As u can see next to the PCI Interface there is the bridge chip which will hook the PCI to the available PCIe lane of the mobo, all new gen Intel mobos are coming out without Native PCI support since a coupe of years now. Now that doesnt mean that all of them do not properly support PCI, but it all comes down to the bridge chip model and ur current PCI card. Mostly PCI cards that require lots of bandwidth or low latency will have issues. I found many examples of the same issue on some Audiophile forum where people are still using the good old PCI sound cards for their studio conversion needs. It also depends on other factors, example how many other interfaces the mobo manufacturer hooked to the PCIe lane, since the lanes are limited, especially in SoC architecture (Intel Braswell offers 4 PCIe lanes).

    If u add the fact that my SkyStar HD2 is working fine on my old mobo then and that i don't touch anything else besides changing the mobo, same card, same dish, same settings, different mobo :) and many complains regarding similar issues across the net:)

    In any case @mm1352000 i decided that i will not take any more risks and go for a PCIe TV card. I am between these two:

    1. TBS6902

    2. DVBSky S950

    On the other thread u mention (rightfully) that we don't support all the TBS cards so this is becoming a major issue for me and on the other hand we mention in the wiki that DVBSky has no motor support although i found a thread (in which u btw participated) that shows different results compared to our wiki, apparently a user got this card and his motor was working fine, not only it was working it was working even better than my current SkyStar HD2 (SkyStar HD2 is able to move the dish but will time out after movement). I do agree with u, the wiki is a mess, not all of it but the TV Card Compatibility part is!!! I am unable to find the thread but i was reading it yesterday and the owner of the card clearly states that it is working perfectly fine with no time outs if u increase the tune time outs in mp config. But then again i also found another post where u clearly state that motor support is not working on DVBSky cards.

    I am absolutely confused and i really need a solution, as we all do i guess hehehe
     

    mm1352000

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    It is 99% the current PCI to PCIe bridge.
    So you would have checked DPC latency...?

    As u can see...
    Yes, I'm aware of the situation. I'm not saying that the problem is not with the PCI interface. Just that it's quite unlikely, and I would recommend to rule out the other possibilities first.

    If u add the fact that my SkyStar HD2 is working fine on my old mobo then and that i don't touch anything else besides changing the mobo, same card, same dish, same settings, different mobo...
    You're making some assumptions here. :)
    Different mobo/system => different drivers (for chipset etc.) => possibility of DPC latency issues.
    Different Windows installation => different software environment => possibility of other software causing problems.

    In any case @mm1352000 i decided that i will not take any more risks and go for a PCIe TV card.
    If you say so. I simply note that you may find the exact same issues even with a PCIe card unless you actually determine that the problem is really related to the PCI interface.

    On the other thread u mention (rightfully) that we don't support all the TBS cards so this is becoming a major issue for me...
    What is the problem with simply using the patch?

    and on the other hand we mention in the wiki that DVBSky has no motor support although i found a thread (in which u btw participated) that shows different results compared to our wiki
    I believe the wiki and dis-believe the forum.

    I am absolutely confused...
    Understandably so.

    ...and i really need a solution, as we all do i guess hehehe
    As above:
    • I think it's possible that a PCIe tuner may not solve your problems, and therefore would recommend to do a little more investigation before buying a new mobo and tuner
    • I do not agree that DVBSky DiSEqC is working 100% properly; it does work partially by chance, but there is no proper support
    • there is a patch providing DiSEqC support for all TBS tuners
    • I make no guarantee/claim regarding the movement/time-out stuff for any tuner
    [edit: When I said "super fast" I meant...
    You started this thread only ~12 hours ago. Although you have spent time investigating etc., opportunity for input from other people before your RMA decision was very limited/short.]
     
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    Kotik

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    So you would have checked DPC latency...?
    Yes i did, everything in the greens unless i move a mouse, which is ok since it will still remain in the green spectrum but jump up until mouse movement is done.


    Yes, I'm aware of the situation. I'm not saying that the problem is not with the PCI interface. Just that it's quite unlikely, and I would recommend to rule out the other possibilities first.
    It is exactly what i did for two days in a row.


    You're making some assumptions here. :)
    Different mobo/system => different drivers (for chipset etc.) => possibility of DPC latency issues.
    Different Windows installation => different software environment => possibility of other software causing problems.
    This is why on one installation i used latest drivers from manufacturer site (Intel, Realtek) and on the other i used the ones GiGabyte suggests on their site.

    If you say so. I simply note that you may find the exact same issues even with a PCIe card unless you actually determine that the problem is really related to the PCI interface.
    I am aware of that, such is technology, u can never be sure.


    What is the problem with simply using the patch?
    The problem is that i am between a rock and a hard place, on one hand i have to get a card (TBS) that is not in our wiki and u suggest to use ur patch for it but u cannot guarantee that it will work and on the other hand to get a card (DVBSky) that u suggest is not properly supported but another user successfully moved a motor with it.


    I believe the wiki and dis-believe the forum.
    If follow that up then i should not buy either of the cards........


    Understandably so.
    Thank you.

    I think it's possible that a PCIe tuner may not solve your problems, and therefore would recommend to do a little more investigation before buying a new mobo and tuner/QUOTE]
    I had 3 days to test, after that my RMA period will run over :( and i will have to use the warranty option which will take quite some time and will probably result with a mobo replacement of the same type, this is something i want to avoid since i want to get a PCIe Interface mobo after RMAing this one.[/quote]
     

    mm1352000

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    everything in the greens unless i move a mouse
    That's odd.
    USB or wireless mouse?
    LatencyMon or DPC Latency Checker? (...remembering that DPC Latency Checker doesn't work properly on W8 and newer.)

    The problem is that i am between a rock and a hard place, on one hand i have to get a card (TBS) that is not in our wiki and u suggest to use ur patch for it but u cannot guarantee that it will work
    If you're looking for guarantees, you won't find any from me.

    I would never guarantee anything for products I have not used myself. It's a safety/responsibility thing. Consider that if I offer you a guarantee it will work, what happens if you buy and find it doesn't? It would be my fault, and that would be very bad. I don't ever want to be in that position, and I don't want to put you in that position either. So, I don't guarantee.

    All I can say (in addition to what I've previously said) is:
    • DiSEqC will almost certainly (99.999% confidence) work for any TBS tuner with the patch. I am personally confident to say that because I created the original patch code and have used it with TBS tuners. The last 0.001% doubt comes from the fact that I have not personally tested the patch with a 6902. Nothing is ever 100% certain in this life, but this is pretty much as good as you're going to get.
    • It is likely (maybe 80+%) that the 6902 can supply enough power to drive a motor. However I will not guarantee that because I didn't design the card and have not done any research to confirm it. I apply the same "disclaimer" for any card/tuner.
    • I cannot even make a guess about whether DVBSky, TBS or any other tuners will or will not have the movement/timeout problem with motors. Few people have mentioned this subject in the 5+ years that I've visited this forum frequently. I've never taken a personal interest/notice because I've never owned a motor.
    Sorry, I'm trying, but I can't be more helpful.
     

    Kotik

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    I am using DPC, i did check with it the windows 7 installation, didnt check 8.1. Used a USB mouse and even used a PS2 one hahahah

    I know that u are trying and i don't expect any guarantees, i know that i wont find any unless i see it working on my system with my own eyes, so i do understand u.

    I will see which card i will eventually get, as of now my priority is RMAing the mobo and moving on to a completely different mobo.

    I also want to know how does the patching process look? Is it something that i can apply on top of future MP releases aswell?

    I am asking cause i have seen developers moving away from MP and abandoning their projects, as a result old patches remain outdated and users cannot update their MP installations to enjoy new features.

    Don't get me wrong and thanx in advance.
     

    Joutungwu

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    As a last chance/try before RMA, you might update the BIOS to the last version F4, if not already done. For version F3 the description says "Improve system compatibility", which is quite unspecific, but maybe it solves the issue with the DVB PCI card.
     

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