[TV] Improving the support for KNC One + CAM (1 Viewer)

[Django.edwards]

Started on: 2011-07-18
last update: 2011-07-18

Summary:
Because I have some issues with my KNC Cards, I hope that some developers could provide some help and improvements, so that all KNC users could benefit.
Area:
TV Server
Description:

First, I would like to describe my TV-Server.
I have 2 KNC One cards, each with his own CAM module. Both cards are connected over a Spaun SAR 422 Diseqc switch to LNB 1 wich points to Hotbird 13.0 and LNB 2 which points to Astra 19.0.

1. Scanning engine not working reliable

What I see is that there are significant differences between card 1 and card 2. On card1 I got approx. 1500 channels where on card2 I got approx. 2500 channels. When I compare both logs, I can see that there are transponders wich I can receive on card 2 but not on card 1 there is no signal and vice versa. So for me it seems that there is an issue on the scanning engine. I attached both logs, maybee this can help.

2. CAM module on first card not always working

On card 1, I got somethimes the message in the logs that the CI module is not working. Even when I go to the tv configuration and I try to open the CI menu. This happens only on card 1 and never on card2. I already swapped both cards and cams with no success, it stays always on Card 1. So it can not be the hardware.

3. CI menu in TV-Server does not always open, or opens only once

An other issue, which is more cosmetic is that, when I go to card 1 I can open the ci menu, when I go then on card to, the ci menu does not open. I have to close the tv configuration, reopen it, ad then it works. But only 1 time.

4. KNC code needs Visual C++ 2008

Is it possible to adapt the KNC code, so that the Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package isn't needed anymore? Because the Mepo 1.2 installation does not install it, but it installs the 2010 version. I read already some threads where users have the problem that after a fresh Mepo 1.2 installation the cards did not work, but after an update from Mepo 1.3 they do. This happens because they have the Visual C++ 2008 installed.

I would be glad to provide logs and do testing to ameliorate this cards.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi Django

Thanks for starting the thread.
Just some brief comments for a start...

1. Scanning engine not working reliable

That is certainly a significant difference in the number of channels found. I did a quick analysis:

Card 1
Failures = 80
Failures Port 0 = 10
Failures Port 1 = 70
Successes Port 1 = 13

Card 2
Failures = 41
Failures Port 0 = 19
Failures Port 1 = 22

So card 1 is more reliable than card 2 on DiSEqC port 0, but it also has *massive* problems with tuning on DiSEqC port 1. It fails to find channels on a single horizontal transponder on port 1.

I also notice that both tuners *always* failed to tune transponders with modulation NBC QPSK - that is probably either an MP bug, driver bug, or hardware limitation. Very easy to find out. Please attempt to manually scan:

Frequency = 11432000
Symbol Rate = 27500
Polarisation = Vertical
Inner FEC Rate = 2/3
DiSEqC = Simple A
Pilot = Off
Roll Off = 0.35

Use different modulation values, especially QPSK and NBC QPSK (DVB-S2). If you can find a modulation that allows the tuner to lock on that transponder then please let me know and I will update the code.

In truth, any failure to tune is very bad, and unfortunately I don't have an explanation for most of the failures. I wonder:

Are you using the latest drivers?
Is there any difference in performance when the CI modules are not connected?
Is there any difference in performance if you take one card out temporarily?
Have you tried swapping the satellite cables to the two cards? (Note you should turn the computer and any STBs off before unplugging or replugging cables.)
Is there any difference in performance of card 1 if it is connected directly to the LNB?

2. CAM module on first card not always working

The likelihood of an MP code bug is relatively small here. You tried switching the smartcards and CAMs, but did you also try switching CI modules? Maybe one of the CI modules (or even the cable to the module) is not reliable. Alternatively, it is possible that the drivers don't work very well when more than one of the same card is installed in a single PC.

3. CI menu in TV-Server does not always open, or opens only once

Now that could definitely be a bug. I will try to find some time to look at the logs.

4. KNC code needs Visual C++ 2008

This was a mistake on our part. We forgot to check the external DLL dependencies when we released 1.2.0b. We will be including the VC++2008 redistributable again with 1.2.0rc and for the forseeable future because some of the external DLLs are tied to VC++2008 and we are waiting for replacements from the DLL providers. Note that I received an updated KNC DLL just yesterday. The interface is slightly different to the old one (which is several years old now) so we will have to make code changes before that DLL should be included. I think it will be included with 1.3.x...

mm

 

[Django.edwards]

Hi mm,

1. so I did a first tuningtest. What is it for a frequency 11432000? Is this a hotbird tp? When I look at de.kingsofsat.net I can't find any channel on this transponder. Anywhere, I did some test with modulation none,qpsk,qpsk2 and 16apsk wich is mentionned at kingsofsat. I got always nothing found. Maybee we should use an other frequency?
I used before the driver version 2.1.1130.0, same result. Then I updated to 2.2.310.0 which is the latest. Same result.
At the moment I can not test without ci module installed because this installation is situated in another town, I am connected over Teamviewer to do these tests. But as soon as I can get there I will check without ci or without cam connected an put the results.
I installed the Diseqc switch last week, so before the lnb's were connected directly, I did not remarked any difference in performance, and I had always these scanning problems. This was also the reason to do some manual scans, which worked then.

2. Trust me, I switched everything, the cables, the cards, the cams, the ci modules. No difference. With only 1 card in the system I think that I never had problems with the cam.
What I remarked is, that it is always the card wich is in PCI slot 1 which makes problems. So first I thinked of mainboard problems. For this reason I checked with GlobeTV 2011 from KNC. But with this software the ci modules are always recognized. I never had problems with this soft. So thats the reason why I think this could be Mepo related.
When the 1. card makes these cam problems, the only way to resolv this, is to stop the tvservice and to restart it. Then the problems are away, until the nextr occurence.

3. + 4. as I said, this is not really urgent. For me it is annoying, but I can life wis such little problems.

Anything else that I could do?

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again Django

I can't spend too much more time on these issues right now as I have an urgent bug that I need to try and deal with. Some more brief comments...

1. so I did a first tuningtest. What is it for a frequency 11432000? Is this a hotbird tp? When I look at de.kingsofsat.net I can't find any channel on this transponder. Anywhere, I did some test with modulation none,qpsk,qpsk2 and 16apsk wich is mentionned at kingsofsat. I got always nothing found. Maybee we should use an other frequency?

Hmm, it is listed as a feed/uplink transponder which means that it doesn't operate all the time. All of the QPSK transponders are the same, so it doesn't look like we can test this one (unless you want to go through your logs and check each QPSK frequency).

I used before the driver version 2.1.1130.0, same result. Then I updated to 2.2.310.0 which is the latest. Same result.
At the moment I can not test without ci module installed because this installation is situated in another town, I am connected over Teamviewer to do these tests. But as soon as I can get there I will check without ci or without cam connected an put the results.
I installed the Diseqc switch last week, so before the lnb's were connected directly, I did not remarked any difference in performance, and I had always these scanning problems. This was also the reason to do some manual scans, which worked then.

Did you have the problems before 1.2.0a and 1.2.0b? I'm just wondering whether it would be worth trying "stop mode" and/or the DVB-S network provider. Those settings are both in the "card" properties:

1. Open TV Server configuration.
2. Expand the "TV Servers" node on the left.
3. Select your TV Server in the tree.
4. Select a tuner in the tuner list on the right.
5. Click "edit".
6. Set "preferred network provider" to "DVBS".
7. Set "when card enters idle state do the following..." to "stop card".

Details are -->here<--. It may not help, and the network provider change may actually make things worse. It is necessary for some cards though.

2. Trust me, I switched everything, the cables, the cards, the cams, the ci modules. No difference. With only 1 card in the system I think that I never had problems with the cam.

If you could verify that it would be *extremely* useful.

What I remarked is, that it is always the card wich is in PCI slot 1 which makes problems. So first I thinked of mainboard problems.

I would have thought the same.

For this reason I checked with GlobeTV 2011 from KNC. But with this software the ci modules are always recognized. I never had problems with this soft. So thats the reason why I think this could be Mepo related. When the 1. card makes these cam problems, the only way to resolv this, is to stop the tvservice and to restart it. Then the problems are away, until the nextr occurence.

Hmmmm, the question about whether you had this problem before 1.2.0a becomes even more important with this information. If TV Server is controlling the card or CI module incorrectly then we could talk to KNC about that. If the error is unavoidable then it is also possible that we need to add some code to reinitialise the CI module... or something.

3. + 4. as I said, this is not really urgent. For me it is annoying, but I can life wis such little problems.

Yup, okay.

Anything else that I could do?

Try the stop mode and network provider changes as suggested above and see if they make a difference. That would be all for now.

mm

 

[Django.edwards]

He mm,

no worry.... serious bugs have priority 1 !!!

I'm glad that you even take your take to help me... I will try some of your suggestions on thursday when I go to visit my brother in law. I hope I can provide you some more logs. So take your time.

Thanks for all so far...

 

[Django.edwards]

Hi mm,

sorry for my late reply, but I was really busy.
Finally I found the time to do some more test.

1. scanning engine not working reliable:

What I have done is the following: I removed the CI module on card 1 and did these test only with card 1.My test scenario was the following:
- I switch the computer off and checked the cabling and the dish with my smartmeter S10, everything was fine and I had a good signal quality. So I start with switching the computer on.
Then I did a fullscan on the first card, on the Hotbird LNB the scan found nothing on 17 transponders and for the Astra LNB he found nothing for 21 transponders. See log "fullscan 1st card without cam.rar".

- Then I closed the server config and restarted the TV service
Then I did a second run to be shure that the results are occurate. Here I found nothing for 37 tp on Hotbird and nothing for 28 tp on Astra. See logfile:"fullscan 1st card without cam 2nd try.rar"

- Then I removed the tick "enable cam" on the first card and restarted the TV service again.
On this run the result was even worst, on Hotbird he found nothing for about 45 tp and on Astra the scan found no working tp at all. see log: "fullscan 1st card without cam without cam marked 3rd try.rar"

-Then I put DVB-S as provider into the config of the first card and put the tick into the "cam enabled" and restarted the TV service
On this run, the scan found nothing at all. See log: "fullscan 1st card without cam with dvbs marked 4th try.rar"

-After this, I leaved the config as it was and I did a reset of the computer and restarted the fullscan.
Now, the fullscan found each transponder and everything was fine: see log:"fullscan 4th try after reset.rar"

-To bee shure I did another scan with the same setting after a restart of the tv service. See log:"fullscan 1st card without cam with dvbs mark 2nd try.rar". Everything fine.

-Then I switched the provider back to "generic" and did another test... here I didn't find several tp. sorry no log for this.

So, finally I put my both cards on provider "DVB-S", with cam enabled for both. The first card without cam inserted, the second card with cam inserted.
On this run both card worked fine, they found every transponder.
So this seems to be my working scenario.
Can you explain me what the technical background for the different provider settings is? Only to understand what this setting does.

I hope that these test where helpfull for you to see something valuable. If you need some more investigations from my side, please let me know.

Thanks in advance

Django