Let me donate bitcoins to support mediaportal (general Bitcoin discussion) (1 Viewer)

[vuego]

Good suggestion, findftp
I've also sent a Bitcoin donation to high. I love how simple and quick it is and I don't have to send my personal details to Paypal or MediaPortal.

Obviously no. Unless it became a legal currency when I wasn't looking. I have an old tv I'd like to donate. Would you mind coming round to pick it up and then selling it?

It is not that obvious. Bitcoin is not illegal and not physical so your old TV analogy is false. It takes less than a second to set up a new Bitcoin address and start accepting Bitcoins.
Here's a list of products and services that you can buy with Bitcoins.

 

[foxbenw]

Good suggestion, findftp
I've also sent a Bitcoin donation to high. I love how simple and quick it is and I don't have to send my personal details to Paypal or MediaPortal.

Obviously no. Unless it became a legal currency when I wasn't looking. I have an old tv I'd like to donate. Would you mind coming round to pick it up and then selling it?

It is not that obvious. Bitcoin is not illegal and not physical so your old TV analogy is false. It takes less than a second to set up a new Bitcoin address and start accepting Bitcoins.
Here's a list of products and services that you can buy with Bitcoins.

I disagree. I never said it was illegal, I said it wasn't a currency. It's not. It can't be for a very long time. It's currently just a fairly volatile asset that is clearly going to be discouraged by national banks/governments. It's interesting to imagine how a world would work where cost of capital/supply of money is not controlled at a country level but it is mainly academic. As long as investors have their own base currency and tend to live and spend in one country, bitcoins can only be a volatile form of exchange, not a currency. Interesting experiment but not feasible in today's environment. Therefore we shouldn't encourage it. In my opinion, of course!

 

[Oxan]

I said it wasn't a currency. It's not. (...) bitcoins can only be a volatile form of exchange, not a currency.

Since the usual definition of "currency" is "a medium of exchange", you seem to be contradicting yourself.

 

[foxbenw]

I said it wasn't a currency. It's not. (...) bitcoins can only be a volatile form of exchange, not a currency.

Since the usual definition of "currency" is "a medium of exchange", you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Not really. Currency is one type of medium of exchange. The key part of being a currency is that it is a store of value. Anything that represents the flow of demand from investors with various base currencies cannot be a store of value relative to any one country. Therefore bitcoins are not a currency. I'm not trying to be controversial, it's just true. Like I said, it's an interesting experiment, both practically and intellectually, and I enjoy thinking about the consequences. However, as long as countries need to regulate the flows in and out of their countries by having a floating exchange rate and setting interest rates, there cannot be a true global currency of any form. So while it's fun to try out something like bitcoins, it can never replace money in today's world. It could fall significantly in value and wipe out personal wealth due to movements in 'real life' currency markets, so it is not responsible to encourage it's use as a form of currency. I know people will try anyway, because it's a bit anti-establishment and that's the flavour of the day in today's world. That's ok, each to their own. But I will always advise caution.

 

[findftp]

However, as long as countries need to regulate the flows in and out of their countries by having a floating exchange rate and setting interest rates, there cannot be a true global currency of any form.

There already is one global currency, and that's called the dollar. Every other currency is compared to it, hence the currency wars.

 

[Oxan]

Not really. Currency is one type of medium of exchange. The key part of being a currency is that it is a store of value. Anything that represents the flow of demand from investors with various base currencies cannot be a store of value relative to any one country. Therefore bitcoins are not a currency. I'm not trying to be controversial, it's just true.

That's not entirely true. Both bitcoins and dollar bills have an intrinsic value of (almost) zero. If nobody wants them, it's just a bit of paper or an arrangement of some bits. However, both bitcoin and dollars are a currency, because people accept them in exchange for other things. They both store value: you've to invest a certain amount of something to get them (whether that's computing power, labour or another currency doesn't matter), and you can exchange them back for something else (sure, you can exchange Bitcoins less divers products than dollars, but you can exchange them, and that's the imprtant part). Both may be twice or half as much worth tomorrow as they are today. Sure, it's less likely that it happens with the dollar, but if the US government defaults on its debt, you can be sure the dollar dives in value. A non-volatile exchange rate isn't a requirement to be a currency, nor is association with a country (otherwise the Euro wouldn't be a currency either, since it's associated with 27 countries and none of them can change the exchange rate or regulate the money flow into their country).

So while it's fun to try out something like bitcoins, it can never replace money in today's world. It could fall significantly in value and wipe out personal wealth due to movements in 'real life' currency markets, so it is not responsible to encourage it's use as a form of currency. I know people will try anyway, because it's a bit anti-establishment and that's the flavour of the day in today's world. That's ok, each to their own. But I will always advise caution.

Sure, I completely agree with that. But it's still a currency and has a valid function as such. Everyone should decide for their themselves whether (s)he wants to take the risk of using it (whether using it is responsible depends on a lot of factors: converting all your money to it probably isn't, but using it to invest 1% of your capital can be fine). The same is true for the US dollar or the Euro, the risk involved in using them is just a lot lower.

 

[MrCrabs]

A currency fullfills three major principles:

1. It is a store of value - meaning not that it's value isn't allowed to change in comparision to other objects (like other currencies, food, shoes, etc.), but instead that it doesn't suffer from decay (so ice cream would not fit in here).

2. It works as an ultimate, standardized acounting unit allowing to tell a Price in comparision to the currency. Otherwise you would have a price pairing for any two things you would like to trade which would make trading pretty hard.

3. It is the ulitmate exchange medium - no need to have in stock what your trade Partner wants, he just accepts money.

After all one can say: money is everything that works like money.
To work as money it also has to be rare, otherwise there would be no need to have any. So sand isn't a good currency in the desert, but might be in upper greenland. That'S also why any currency might become obsolete if infaltion increases to much. Then it isn't rare enough an will be replaced by other currencies or even pseudo currencies, like e.g. cigarettes in germany after world war II.

Bitcoins fulfill all the above, so it is a currency, though a very new variant which is not dependend from a central bank. Only Point where bitcoins still suffer is that I can't pay in a real store with it since it is still bound to online trade - so it some kind lacks in Point 3 and that probably causes all the discussion about it.

 

[findftp]

Since the userprofile of @foxbenw tells me his occupation is 'fund manager' this is going to be an interesting discussion. I'm watching from the sideline for a while

 

[MrCrabs]

What I wrote actually was from my professors script for the course "money theory and the politics of the european central bank" I took last semester so it should at least fit in somehow.

Edit: How come that this post needs to be given free by a moderator?

 

[Spragleknas]

'Cause our filter is really aggressive for the time being... Sorry.
@high: Any way to slap the filter a chill pill?