Ongoing Low Cost HTPC (1080P) (1 Viewer)

[kszabo]

Please tell us if it can run 1080p h.264/mpeg2 (with no help from coreavc) flawlessly on just the onboard graphics itself.

I don´t know why everybody keeps sticking to 1080p

1080i is more demanding according to my experiences. Decent deinterlacing is a f***ing hard job! And all HD broadcasts through DVB-S2 or DVB-C (Germany, Astra) are sent as 1080i over the air!

My system plays 1080p trailers all right (CoreAVC, X2 BE-2400, x1250 gfx) but can´t really cope with 1080i.

 

[outlive]

because a Progressive Scan image has a higher vertical resolution than an frame of an interlaced video with the same frame rate.
you are right that deinterlacing puts an additional strain on the hardware when using software mode, but modern GPU's support hardware deinterlacing, like Ati's AVIVO supports vector adaptive de-interlacing and video scaling.
thus putting processing power for progressive and interlaced on the same level, and in that case people tend to use the "higher" resolution as a benchmark

it's like comparing cpu's though their mhz count - still stupid but a rough guideline
but if you feel better i can change the titel to 1080i

Edit: interesting tho, that a X2 BE-2400 with a x1250 while using CoreAVC is having problems with 1080i - you should have more then enough power

 

[kszabo]

because a Progressive Scan image has a higher vertical resolution than an frame of an interlaced video with the same frame rate.

They don´t have the same framerate.

the 1080i and 1080p has exactly the same amount of pixel to cope with (decode), because 1080i is broadcasted with 50 fps (50 half pictures) and 1080p 25 fps (in PAL countries, maybe 24 fps for movies). 1080i half vertical resolution but double framerate.

And good deinterlacing (like adaptive) does not half the framerate, so at last with 1080i you have double of created pixels per second (eg. you can watch football better with 1080i, more fluidity with better temporal resoulition).

but modern GPU's support hardware deinterlacing, like Ati's AVIVO supports vector adaptive de-interlacing and video scaling.

This is true for SD MPG2. I am not shure that Avivo can do vector adaptive deinterlacing for h264 1080i, I guess the maximum it can handle is "blend" and "bob". Maybe the ultra high-end GPUs can do better.

Decent deinterlacing hardware for 1080 costs horror amount of money (50-100.000 USD) and are used only from professional studios. Don´t expect same performance from an onboard ATi HD3200...

My tests untill now showed that a cheap ATi like my x1250 cannot do any kind of deinterlacing at all for 1080i. Not even "blend". The X2 BE-2400 with CoreAVC plays 1080i fluid only without activated software deinterlacing.

but if you feel better i can change the titel to 1080i

just change to 1080 (without i or p)
I meant only that some should not be already happy if the hardware plays 1080p, he should check 1080i as well (and maybe will make big eyes why it looks shitty, interlaced, stuttering...), like watch 20-30 Mbps 1080i football live with quick camera pannings

 

[outlive]

They don´t have the same framerate.

i know that, but it doesn't matter...
2 interlaced frames pictures have the same pixel amounts then 1 progressive frame

I am not shure that Avivo can do vector adaptive deinterlacing for h264 1080i, I guess...

why are you "guessing" what avivo can and can't do - i suggest you are reading up on that information:

excerpt of the Atis Avivo Whitepaper:
Vector Adaptive de-interlacing
With Avivo, ATI introduces a highly advanced de-interlacing scheme – vector adaptive - that
excels even at the hardest of de-interlacing cases (such as low-angle diagonal lines).
In this algorithm, Avivo-enabled hardware selects the best data to build a progressive frame from
either the raw field data (when motion is detected to be low) or from a video data that is
interpolated along several vectors.

for the full text you can take a look at th "ATI Avivo Whitepaper" - downloadable here:
ATI Avivo™ - Downloads

 

[kszabo]

I am not only guessing. I spent lots of hours testing several MPG2 and h264 codecs, accelerated and not, film interlaced and not.

I believe that Avivo theoretically can do it (decent adaptive deint) but some hardware cannot!!! I did enough tests with the 690gx1250. I could set deinterlacing to whatever I wanted (auto, bob, adaptive) in CCC but the result was: 1080i video not deinterlaced at all! SD MPg2 deinterlacing was very nice. Not all Avivo features are supported of all GPUs, and not at every resolution!

Don´t believe everything ATi writes. They does not even have stable drivers for XP for 690g/780g chipset (only for Vista)!

You will see. Build your HTPC, and test some DVB-S2 1080i (like live Bundesliga from Premiere HD). I can mail you some captured sequences. I guess your new 780g with the HD3200 will do a much better job than my x1250

Edit: just to complete the picture: the type of CPU can influence the 1080 h.264 picture quality, even if the decoding and deinterlacing and some postprocessing are done through GPU. A new Phenom with HT3 has better picture quality than a normal X2 with HT2 (it can supposedly make some postprocessing after GPU has done the job)

 

[outlive]

Build your HTPC, and test some DVB-S2 1080i (like live Bundesliga from Premiere HD). I can mail you some captured sequences. I guess your new 780g with the HD3200 will do a much better job than my x1250)

i'm expecting the 780G to perform much better then the 690G as every test on this integrated chipset has shown so far, i'll gladly test out these types of videos with the new GPU/CPU and post benchmarks of their performance!

 

[rak]

mainboard and harddrive arrived yesterday, will test out how the cooler fits on the mainboard and if any memory slots are taken

Have you already build the system? Fits the CPU cooler?

 

[outlive]

nope - still waiting for the case, although i could test out the cooler part

 

[kszabo]

SilverStone Milo - Case 10 cm high

Hi Outlive!

will full hight PCI cards fit your system at 10 cm case hight? It can become a big pain in the a**. Or is there a riser card solution for this? AFAIK you will be able to use only low profile cards (= problem). And fit only 1 hard drive.

I am planing to buy an antec fusion black instead (with the same gigabyte motherboard), it is higher so I can put 1 gfx-card and 2-3 other cards (wlan, 2 tv tuner) into it. And I can put a syntace Ninja mini cooler as passive onto the cpu. Cool air chamber design with BIG 12 cm fans (big=quiet).

check this out:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/completed-htpc-projects-61/first-antec-htpc-build-36055/

the silverstone has only 1 8cm fan. The antec 2 12cm (plus power unit fan of both). It means your system will run at higher temperatures and the CPU fan will have to run always. And the Gigabyte onboardGFX is passively cooled, it needs good ventilation. With the Antec Fusion you can run the system with the 2 12cm case fans at low rpm, CPU and GFX passively cooled.

Yes, a high case is not cool, but all professional HiFi stuff are big... Big case = system can bee cooled well without noise.

 

[outlive]

the Silverstone Milo ML01 case uses a pci riser card (included)
i'm not using any additional pc cards cards (onboard vga/lan/audio, no tv tuner, usb WiFi)

the ML01 has only 1 80mm case fan, that's right - but he clocks in at 1800rpm with 19CFM @ 20,65dBA
which is inaudible at my seating distance

the cpu cooler also sits directly under/next to spacious mesh grills to allow a good airflow

the onboard gpu - Ati's Crossfire Xpress 3200 - is capable of decoding 1080p videos with minimal cpu use
so the AMD Sempron 64 LE-1100 AM2 with it's tiny TDP won't get more then handwarm during normal use
so the scythe shurikan with it's huge heatsink won't have to turn on it's 92mm cooler at all

so yes - the silverstone is the perfect case for me in this price range

Have you already build the system? Fits the CPU cooler?

a quick test showed that the scythe shuriken fit's perfectly - no obstruction of the 1st. memory slot
the total height mobo+cooler is 80mm - which should leave enough room to the case's top (98mm high)
excuse the poor quality of this shots, as they are taken with my mobile phone: