Media Portal plugin for BartPE (3 Viewers)

[Xtremee]

Hi all
sorry for being off topic for a while (study you know) :sorry:
Anyway let's start


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@ Taipan,

what the purpose of this plugin? and what the benefits might be?

Run Media Portal direct form CD/DVD/USB so that you can carry your MP system with you anywhere you go to use it on any PC you wanna.

Could you please list the options that don't work?

for example the games plugin (My plugin) not work

Why does it need to be added to the installation pack?

Give additional to users that other companies don't do also it will make your system portable

Is it a plugin for MediaPortal, or for BartPE?

it is a plugin for BartPE that can be used with PEBuilder to build MP system.

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@ Spragleknas,

how a PE can be added in MP installation "pack"

Added to the .exe program package and when MP installed it will add a shortcut to the plugin in the start menu or add an option in the configuration GUI to Build a MP system on CD/DVD/USB.


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@ Sh4nn0w,
As far as I can tell its like a Linux Live CD basically, you test it out, without actually installing Windows on your pc, and try out other programs as well.
Yes.
This give you an option to carry your system (Portable) with you to any place you wanna.

YOUR MEDIA CENTER SYSTEM IN YOUR HAND AND YOU CAN USE IT ON ANY PC YOU WANNA​

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[James]

Hi Xtremee,

I don't know anything about BartPE, but the following has me worried

It will give you a complete Win32 environment with network support, a
graphical user interface (800x600) and FAT/NTFS/CDFS filesystem support.
Very handy for burn-in testing systems with no OS, rescuing files to a
network share, virus scan and so on.
This will replace any Dos bootdisk in no time!

Only 800x600 ? It seems BartPE was/is designed for admin jobs. Where this resolution would be enought. I'm assuming this is a driver issue. So it is only using basic VGA. This would be a big problem for MP.

If they are using just generic drivers many things are going to be missing. Otherwise each user will need to make a custom disk? However, a custom disk is not going to work for other PCs, unless they have excatly the same hardware.

I'm happy that you done this work and others can benefit from it. However, we will not be able to offically support it. We already have too much work supporting the current system and this would add extra an support load.

/James

 

[ziphnor]

First off, let me say that i think that i personally think it would be great to be able to run MediaPortal from a LiveCD. It would especially be nice if one could have a generic installation of MP on the livecd so that if you wanted to demonstrate/try out MP quickly on someones HTPC you could just pop in this CD, do a channel scan and then be ready.

Added to the .exe program package and when MP installed it will add a shortcut to the plugin in the start menu or add an option in the configuration GUI to Build a MP system on CD/DVD/USB.

Personally i would think that even though its an excellent idea to have MP on a liveCD, its only a fraction of our users that will want to use it, so it seems rather wasteful to include it as default. What is wrong with having the builder plug-in as a separately downloadable plugin?

Btw, though i am part of the MP team, this is not an official 'team reply' on this topic, its just my personal opinion.

 

[and-81]

Why not just include it in the Download section of the MediaPortal web site?

That's where most things go unless they are of use to the majority of the MP community, and only then do they get included in the installer.

 

[igalan]

You know that Media Portal heavily depends on DirectX, don't you?. You don't get DirectX support unless there is hardware and correct drivers, and of course the DirectX runtime. But unfortunately none of these is avaiable on BartPE. Not to mention TV drivers, and drivers for any other hardware.

I would look at a different approach, which would be converting it in a PortableApp (have you tried any PortableApp? They're great, since the require no install, and don't change your system. There would be some limitations, and for instance codecs do need to be present or installed, but still that may be possible. The good thing is that you could deploy MediaPortal in minutes to any system, with no install and carry with you your set up. Much like with BartPE, but your settings would be retained and you'll need to boot the system first (which is usually faster than booting to BartPE anyways).

 

[Xtremee]

@ James,

Only 800x600 ? It seems BartPE was/is designed for admin jobs. Where this resolution would be enought. I'm assuming this is a driver issue. So it is only using basic VGA. This would be a big problem for MP.

This is the default setting that load when you start your PE CD but you can change this setting to fit the resolution that you are looking for and it is support 1024x768 and 1280x1024 and both work OK.

If they are using just generic drivers many things are going to be missing. Otherwise each user will need to make a custom disk? However, a custom disk is not going to work for other PCs, unless they have excatly the same hardware.

Yes generic drivers are not enough due to the need to Direct X so, it will be needed to have a plugin for your VGA card. Don't worry there are a lot of VGA plugins already done also there is a small program that build this plugin automatically moreover if any one need a plugin for his VGA i can support it for him. So it is not a problem at all.

we will not be able to offically support it. We already have too much work supporting the current system and this would add extra an support load.

You will not need to support it. I will keep supporting this plugin.

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@ ziphnor,

Personally i would think that even though its an excellent idea to have MP on a liveCD, its only a fraction of our users that will want to use it, so it seems rather wasteful to include it as default. What is wrong with having the builder plug-in as a separately downloadable plugin?

Yeah, fraction of users who will use it bcoz they don't know about such this option or they may not know about PE system at all. I can make a complete explanation about PE system to let the users know about this world that really will turn our life to be more easier.
btw, You may notice that Windows Vista setup form boot DVD have more GUI than Windows XP for example in Windows Vista there is no Text Mode (the Blue screen that come after boot from CD) like XP bcoz Windows Vista in its start load PE system (not Bart one) so that it can support mouse and more GUI.

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@ and-81 ,

Why not just include it in the Download section of the MediaPortal web site?

That bcoz any plugin that added to the download section used to add or adjust a feature for MediaPortal program but in my case the plugin is not going to add a feature to MediaPortal it will port the whole MP system to be run on another platform (PE System) which is considered a complete change in the way that MP work.

That's where most things go unless they are of use to the majority of the MP community, and only then do they get included in the installer.

Yeah, fraction of users who will use it bcoz they don't know about such this option or they may not know about PE system at all. I can make a complete explanation about PE system to let the users know about this world that really will turn our life to be more easier.
btw, You may notice that Windows Vista setup form boot DVD have more GUI than Windows XP for example in Windows Vista there is no Text Mode (the Blue screen that come after boot from CD) like XP bcoz Windows Vista in its start load PE system (not Bart one) so that it can support mouse and more GUI.

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@ igalan,

You know that Media Portal heavily depends on DirectX, don't you?. You don't get DirectX support unless there is hardware and correct drivers, and of course the DirectX runtime. But unfortunately none of these is avaiable on BartPE. Not to mention TV drivers, and drivers for any other hardware.

BartPE that you download contain the minimum setting to get the PE system to be run so that we make a lot of plugin to fit our needs, for example i made Microsoft Windows Tablet PC (Beta) and it work OK. Not only that we move moreover, in the PE system now you can INSTALL some applications like what you don on your real system. Check my Plugins
I'm really know that DirectX is needed to run MP otherwise it wouldn't work with me.

I would look at a different approach, which would be converting it in a PortableApp (have you tried any PortableApp? They're great, since the require no install, and don't change your system.

That is not right so far. PortableApp make change in your system registry and they do these changes based on NSIS-launchers. If you wanna to check that try to use the portable Mozilla Firefox then after you open it go to Add/Remove Programs in your control panel you will find it there and this don't come unless you modify the registry of the windows. May be they need to study the windows registry very well as you can prevent an Application from appearing in Add/Remove by skip some registry key. also you can check what i mean by NSIS-launcher by check the extract application folders. To be more specific go to folder name Other->Source you will find .nsi files you can open them with any text editor (Notepad is ok) and if you check it you will find there some values for registry setting. Check this

The good thing is that you could deploy MediaPortal in minutes to any system, with no install and carry with you your set up. Much like with BartPE, but your settings would be retained and you'll need to boot the system first (which is usually faster than booting to BartPE anyways).

Yeah, to have a portable MP like PortableApp is a great thing but you can't guarantee the required software that MP need to be found on the host system for example as you know MP need to have Microsoft .NET v2 to be installed on the system you can't guarantee that it had been installed on the system also there will be more limitations as you said for the codecs but in PE System we can build everything we need and the only disadvantage is the time need to boot the PE system but it is also a huge advantage if it compared to the feature that PE.

PE will add:

1. MP will be portable.
2. you don't need any additional program only you PE CD/DVD/USB.
3. You can run it on any HTPC and not limited to those which have window (i.e. as you know MP not support Linux OS and it had been asked a lot in this forum to support this OS but with PE System Linux users will be able to run MP on there HTPC. Just build your PE system once on the windows then move it to any CD/DVD/USB so that you can use it any time to run MP without the need to install windows anymore.

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The coming Technology will be to the portable software so don't prevent MP to be portable.

YOUR MEDIA CENTER SYSTEM IN YOUR HAND AND YOU CAN USE IT ON ANY PC YOU WANNA​

 

[ziphnor]

PE will add:

1. MP will be portable.
2. you don't need any additional program only you PE CD/DVD/USB.
3. You can run it on any HTPC and not limited to those which have window (i.e. as you know MP not support Linux OS and it had been asked a lot in this forum to support this OS but with PE System Linux users will be able to run MP on there HTPC. Just build your PE system once on the windows then move it to any CD/DVD/USB so that you can use it any time to run MP without the need to install windows anymore.

This is all very well, but most likely completely useless for at least 90% of our users.

Im not sure i understand the big advantage of making Mediaportal 'portable' for general purposes. Most of the settings in mediaportal will be tied to one HTPC/location anyway (channel information and tuner drivers for example). Its much more likely that you want to bring the media (movies, picture and music) with you. I suppose it could be nice to bring all your music (if you can fit it on a DVD with BartPE and MP) along with the music database and playback software on a DVD to for example a party, but its still a rather special use scenario.

I think the coolest use of this plugin would be to make 'presentation' DVD's allowing you to easily show off MP on someones HTPC without having to change their setup. A second cool idea, could be an install DVD that installed windows and Mediaportal along with any prereq's thus improving the installation experience greatly, but that would probably be a legal nightmare to achieve.

The coming Technology will be to the portable software so don't prevent MP to be portable.

I dont think anyone is preventing it (as i said i think its a nice idea), i just dont see why it should be included in the default install (which is bloated enough with plugins as it is).

 

[Xtremee]

first sorry for my delay in reply bcoz i was really to busy in the last days. Anyway lets start.

@ziphnor,

most likely completely useless for at least 90% of our users.

Yes, As they don't have any previous knowledge about PE System and what is its advantages?
for example look in the start of this Topic (most likely in the first page of this topic) you will find a lot who don't know anything about PE system but as i'm going in my replies its advantage comes up and somewhat become clear. Look for yourself for example you say it

This is all very well

i think that will be the opinion of a lot of other users when they will know about PE System.

Im not sure i understand the big advantage of making Mediaportal 'portable' for general purposes. Most of the settings in mediaportal will be tied to one HTPC/location anyway (channel information and tuner drivers for example).

No, it is not tied to any HTPC. The drives can be build as a separate plugin (PE Plugin) and you are free to add any drives plugins that you wanna (even if these drives that not installed on you HTPC) the more plugins you add mean that you PE CD/DVD/USB and work on different HTPC (i.e. extend your PE System to run on different HTPCs).

Its much more likely that you want to bring the media (movies, picture and music) with you. I suppose it could be nice to bring all your music (if you can fit it on a DVD with BartPE and MP) along with the music database and playback software on a DVD to for example a party, but its still a rather special use scenario.

Here is some of advantages that comes to my mind at this moment

1. 
   Test new plug-ins and also new versions.
2. You can take this PE with you to test your new HTPC before you pay for it.
3. Restore MP setting to your HD if your Windows is down also can be used when you install new windows instead of going every time to re-configuration your MP.
4. Solve the most boring point to us all which is the wasting time when you are going to install your Windows. It will be no more wasting time. With PE you will be able to run you MP and enjoy with your favorite show/movie while you are going to install you windows. You may ask what about reboot and Text mode (the blue screen like DOS) let me say that the Windows will do all of that on a small window that you can minimize and do any work you wanna till the installation is finish. ( this is a new project that i will going with it in the coming months, it is really a great project and it will be based on VM).
5. For those who do not need media playback services while performing other tasks with the same computer, for users who wish to repurpose older computers as media centers.
6. Will be able to run on any PC and MAC which mean any computer.
7. You can ask GeeXboX why they make a Media Center that completely run form CD ( they don't have any installer ). (btw, GeeXboX is a media center for Linux)
8. Also MP will be the first Media Center that run under Windows that support live CD.
9. I'm sure there are a lot but these what i get now.

A second cool idea, could be an install DVD that installed windows and Mediaportal along with any prereq's thus improving the installation experience greatly, but that would probably be a legal nightmare to achieve.

Easy. I have an experience with this part also. This all can be done without any nightmares and it will be more simple than that of PE. It will be something call Add-on that will be added to nlite (a program used to customize your windows) and with this Add-on MP will be installed while windows is going to installed.

i just dont see why it should be included in the default install (which is bloated enough with plugins as it is).

I said it before to and-81

That bcoz any plugin that added to the download section used to add or adjust a feature for MediaPortal program but in my case the plugin is not going to add a feature to MediaPortal it will port the whole MP system to be run on another platform (PE System) which is considered a complete change in the way that MP work.

YOUR MEDIA CENTER SYSTEM IN YOUR HAND AND YOU CAN USE IT ON ANY PC YOU WANNA​

 

[James]

That bcoz any plugin that added to the download section used to add or adjust a feature for MediaPortal program but in my case the plugin is not going to add a feature to MediaPortal it will port the whole MP system to be run on another platform (PE System) which is considered a complete change in the way that MP work.

There is a place in the download section for non MP plugins. Have a look here -> MEDIAPORTAL - free MediaCenter HTPC Software - System Utilities

 

[ziphnor]

Yes, As they don't have any previous knowledge about PE System and what is its advantages?

No, because most of them don't actually need the features that the PE system offers!

No, it is not tied to any HTPC. The drives can be build as a separate plugin (PE Plugin) and you are free to add any drives plugins that you wanna (even if these drives that not installed on you HTPC) the more plugins you add mean that you PE CD/DVD/USB and work on different HTPC (i.e. extend your PE System to run on different HTPCs).

Well a lot of MediaPortal WILL be tied to a single PC. Its no use bringing my channel list for my cable TV at home to say a holiday home with satellite TV. Its also pretty hard to know in advance what tuner drivers to add, there are quite alot you know.

[*]You can take this PE with you to test your new HTPC before you pay for it.

A good point, but still something you will only use once, no reason to be part of a default install.

[*]Will be able to run on any PC and MAC which mean any computer.

Can it run on non-x86 hardware? You can also install a normal windows installation on a MAC.

...
[*]You can ask GeeXboX why they make a Media Center that completely run form CD ( they don't have any installer ). (btw, GeeXboX is a media center for Linux)
[*]Also MP will be the first Media Center that run under Windows that support live CD.

Look, as i have said quite a few times, i agree that it would be great to have this support. I just dont think it has to be part of the main distribution of MP. No-one here is opposed to the idea. I dont understand why you are so obsessed with making it part of the default MP installation?

Easy. I have an experience with this part also. This all can be done without any nightmares and it will be more simple than that of PE. It will be something call Add-on that will be added to nlite (a program used to customize your windows) and with this Add-on MP will be installed while windows is going to installed.

I have used nlite once to create a windows CD with some extra drivers.

So it would be possible to do this in such a way that people download an install cd creator program which will ask them for a Windows CD (because we certainly cant go around distributing Windows!) and then perhaps burn a CD for them that they can just pop into their HTPC for an unattended install containing everything needed for MP(all the right windows patches, DirectShow stuff and tuner drivers)? Something like that would be really great.

I hope that despite the discussion about when it should be installed, you will want to work on the above stuff, as it would be very nice to have. Perhaps you should try to convince us to put it into the default install by developing it, and then we can see how useful we find it in practice.