Need Help, found then lost QAM channels, cannot pull straight video signal via card (1 Viewer)

[mm1352000]

Well, I unplugged the coax at the cable box side and ran the ATSC scan and I got my channels. Mystery solved.

Nice.

Any more info on correcting the aspect ratio on the line-in feed?

You have three controls on the AR:
1. Potentially the cable box may have an output AR setting somewhere in its settings menu.
2. The tuner input AR setting in TV Server which you already know about (this).
3. There is an aspect ratio setting in MediaPortal. Details.

The order I've listed these is the order that I'd recommend when attempting to solve the problem.
The first setting is the best place to solve the problem. In an ideal world you'd set it as appropriate for the resolution of the source content. The problem is that there may be no setting, or the setting may affect the AR on your TV (which is presumably still hooked up to the cable box). A workaround might be to adjust the TV AR setting such that you get correct AR on the TV and on the PC.
The second setting controls the tuner video scan window size. In an ideal world you'd set it to match the output from the cable box to get optimum picture quality (not that picture quality with an analog RF source will ever be great). However, it may also be used to correct the AR from the cable box if the cable box output is not producing the correct AR. Use trial and error - if one of the values works then go with that. Note that you probably have to restart the TV service for the change to take effect. You may even need to restart the PC (if the tuner driver is really bad).
The third setting is really only designed to be used as a last resort. Even if you can find a mode here that fixes the AR, the setting isn't stored per channel (so you'd have to reset the AR each time you switch to the live feed).

Also, the quality on the line-in feed appearing in my monitor is not as good as on the TV screen. For example, on news channels, the Chyron letters and text in the lower third appears clear and in white on the tv, but with chroma flashing and blur in the computer window.

That is to be expected. Presumably you're using an HDMI connection to the TV? HDMI is vastly superior to an RF feed because it is a digital connection. That means there is no quality loss between the cable box and your TV. With the RF connection to your PC there is a loss in quality:

• in the digital to analog conversion when the source is downscaled and modulated onto the coax cable, simply because this is a lossy process but also because most cable boxes use really cheap digital-to-analog converter chips
• in the cable, simply because the signal is analog and the cable and environment are not electrically noise free (heck, you can pick up ATSC OTA TV using the cable as an aerial)
• in the analog to digital conversion when the signal is demodulated by the tuner, because this is never a lossless process with an analog signal in the real world and most analog tuners have cheap analog-to-digital conversion chips
• on the tuner PC and motherboard as the signal is routed through the PC, because a PC is a very noisy electrical environment
• in the ATI software encoders which throw away some of the detail when they compress the source into MPEG 2 video and audio

Basically RF is the worst possible way to connect the cable box to the PC. Composite, s-video and component may be better options if you have them. Ultimately anything that is an analog connection will introduce some quality loss. The best solution would be to use a digital connection like HDMI with a proper capture card like the Hauppauge Colossus.

mm

 

[RGPFX]

Second subject first. I'm running the cable box out which is NTSC, via coax to the computer. the TV is a digital tv, receiving the split from the coax, but even that SD signal looks better on the TV than the computer. Since my incoming jack on the card does not have HDMI, I have no choice in the matter.

While googling, I read today on Hauppauge's site that cable box HDMI is encrypted usually and as such cannot be sent in to their Colossus product.

I am still seeking an ultimate solution for a video card for building the Home DVR PC I want to put together.[DOUBLEPOST=1376530852][/DOUBLEPOST]Found the AR setting in Server and changed. Have to check the signal by reconnecting the cable from the coax.

 

[mm1352000]

Second subject first. I'm running the cable box out which is NTSC, via coax to the computer. the TV is a digital tv, receiving the split from the coax, but even that SD signal looks better on the TV than the computer.

Okay. So, in my previous post I gave 5 reasons as to why RF connections are not ideal. Even if the TV and PC receive their feeds from the same spllit, the last three points still apply and there are almost certainly differences between the TV and PC in relation to those last three points. In other words:
1. There are reasonable explanations of why the PC feed may appear worse than the TV feed.
2. I don't think it is always reasonable to expect equivalent quality from the TV and the PC.

Since my incoming jack on the card does not have HDMI, I have no choice in the matter.

Yes, I understand that... but the card does have other inputs doesn't it? I did some googling which suggested there is a combined s-video/composite input. Is that true, and if so have you been able to try any alternatives?
Another interesting test would be to remove the RF splitter and see if not having the TV connected makes any difference for the PC (and vice-versa).

While googling, I read today on Hauppauge's site that cable box HDMI is encrypted usually and as such cannot be sent in to their Colossus product.

This is true, however there also exist products that can strip that encryption. For example:
http://www.hdfury.com

Colossus cards are not cheap, and nor are the encryption stripping devices that I'm aware of.
Quite honestly I would understand and sympathise if you were to say you want the best you can get with your existing gear and that you expected a better result... but in my opinion you're on a hiding to nothing.

I am still seeking an ultimate solution for a video card for building the Home DVR PC I want to put together.

You're talking about a GPU here right (ie. not a capture/TV card)?
If so, have a look around over here:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/forums/video-cards.334/
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/forums/general.62/
forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/htpc-upgrade-intel-or-amd-which-way-to-go.120973/

If you don't find an answer then I suggest to start a new thread in the hardware section. Be sure to specify your requirements so people can give advice to suit your needs.

Regards,
mm

 

[RGPFX]

I reconfigured the setup so that the cable box output is using the S-video going into the S-video input on the card. Cable is 6 foot with gold connectors. No splitters or otherwise. It looks a little clearer, but the whites don't seem as bright. Definitely better than the Coax.

I'm still troubled over the aspect ratio, particularly because once I record this, if it has a bad aspect ratio, won't that then be captured on the recording as well and any viewing later from the DVD I intend to burn. I guess from a S-video, it should be 4:3 regardless of any pillar-boxing or letter-boxing.

I am indeed looking for a new better capture card to set up a new dedicated computer DVR. I was looking at the Hauppauge 2250. This seems very well rated.

The page of software encoders seems out of date in the wiki, referring to products that have been moved or changed ownership in some cases. Are there any new recommendations for software video encoders that are now available?

Thanks,
RGPFX

 

[RonD]

RGPFX,

does your u-Verse box have a component output?

This is called, Y Pb Pr, normally has Red, Blue, Green connectors and can at least support 480P DVD level video. There are capture cards that support this input on PCs. I've never tried this and don't know how well this option works, I think the Colossus supports this option.

If you are using the u-Verse box I don't know how MePo can send channel change commands to the box. Maybe one of the IR Blaster options but I've never tried that.

 

[mm1352000]

I reconfigured the setup so that the cable box output is using the S-video going into the S-video input on the card. Cable is 6 foot with gold connectors. No splitters or otherwise. It looks a little clearer, but the whites don't seem as bright. Definitely better than the Coax.

6 foot! Well, it is no wonder the whites aren't as bright - they've been attenuated in the cable.
Have a look here and see if adjusting these parameters helps:
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_.../02_TV_Servers/5_Scan_Analog#Video_Parameters

I'm still troubled over the aspect ratio, particularly because once I record this, if it has a bad aspect ratio, won't that then be captured on the recording as well and any viewing later from the DVD I intend to burn.

Yes, the aspect ratio is captured in the recording.
I can only repeat what I said before regarding the options that you have for investigating/correcting.
What is the situation now, and what have you tried?
Fixing this requires methodical checking of the signal at each stage from the cable box itself to the software.

I guess from a S-video, it should be 4:3 regardless of any pillar-boxing or letter-boxing.

No, I don't think so. A read of wikipedia suggests s-video can carry 16:9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video

I am indeed looking for a new better capture card to set up a new dedicated computer DVR. I was looking at the Hauppauge 2250. This seems very well rated.

Personally I wouldn't spend the money. It only supports the same input types you have at present - RF, composite and s-video. Therefore although it has hardware encoder chips, I think the quality improvement you'd get would be minimal to non-existent.

The page of software encoders seems out of date in the wiki, referring to products that have been moved or changed ownership in some cases. Are there any new recommendations for software video encoders that are now available?

You are right. The packages in which software encoders are bundled often change, are expensive, bloated, complex...
Unfortunately software encoder vendors have little interest in providing reasonably priced solutions for TV tuners. The preferred solution should always be to use a card with hardware encoding, and if that is not possible then to use the encoders bundled with the card software (for example, Hauppauge have the SoftPVR/SoftMCE package). Using third party software encoders is a last resort - not something I recommend. Don't forget we don't provide support for software encoding cards... and this is precisely the reason for that.



mm

 

[RGPFX]

So, since I want to use two different sources, that being off-the-air HD and the cable box's live feed, is it possible to have two different sets of settings for the two different signals I will want to bring in, or will I need to readjust the program settings every time I swap from one to the other?

The two different settings I see:
The cable box analog signal, which will be regular def, probably 4:3, and apparently needing boosted brightness as described in your recommendation above.
The HD signal, which will be 1080 widescreen, and hopefully will not need the brightness boost.


BTW RonD, the U-verse box appears to have outputs for everything except Telepathy (which I suppose wouldn't need one). It has component, as well as S-video, which I guess is the same split set of signals (please feel free to crush my ego if I'm wrong). Also composite, HDMI, and coax.
The Hauppauge card has a single coax and a S-video/separate audio input set.

 

[mm1352000]

So, since I want to use two different sources, that being off-the-air HD and the cable box's live feed, is it possible to have two different sets of settings for the two different signals I will want to bring in, or will I need to readjust the program settings every time I swap from one to the other?

If you're talking about the settings I linked to in the previous post or these ones for aspect ratio an frame rate that I've referred to previously then:

• they're only available for analog tuner and capture cards
• they're available per card

Those settings are applied by capture cards to analog sources.
Your OTA HD is coming in via the digital ATSC side of your card. It doesn't have equivalent settings.
So to be clear, the key is understanding the difference between analog and digital sources.

In other words, the short answer is that adjustments you make for the cable box live feed only affect the live feed. Hopefully that is what you want?

The two different settings I see:

The cable box analog signal, which will be regular def, probably 4:3, and apparently needing boosted brightness as described in your recommendation above.

The HD signal, which will be 1080 widescreen, and hopefully will not need the brightness boost.

As described above, the video proc amp settings (brightness, white balance etc.) have no effect on anything other than the cable box live feed. Hence you can (and should) modify them to suit your needs and taste.
Regarding aspect ratio...
Going back to my list of possible solutions:

1. Potentially the cable box may have an output AR setting somewhere in its settings menu.

2. The tuner input AR setting in TV Server which you already know about (this).

3. There is an aspect ratio setting in MediaPortal. Details.

The first two only affect the cable box live feed. The third is generic - it would affect whatever you're watching at the time (could even be a video from your HDD). That is why I said:

The order I've listed these is the order that I'd recommend when attempting to solve the problem.

So summary of what I'm trying to say to you is don't be afraid of messing with the settings for that analog/capture input. They have no effect on the HD source.

 

[RGPFX]

OK. I was fiddling with these settings as your response came through and indeed discovered that the settings were specific to the analog tuner. That is great! Now I feel I'm getting somewhere.

BTW, when I make changes to these parameters, can this be done while MP is running? Do the changes take effect immediately or do I need to restart MP to see the difference? Is it possible to see the adjustments in real time or is it trial and error?

 

[mm1352000]

OK. I was fiddling with these settings as your response came through and indeed discovered that the settings were specific to the analog tuner. That is great! Now I feel I'm getting somewhere.

Good.

BTW, when I make changes to these parameters, can this be done while MP is running? Do the changes take effect immediately or do I need to restart MP to see the difference? Is it possible to see the adjustments in real time or is it trial and error?

You won't need to restart MP, that's for sure. Any limitations are in the TV Server and card domain, and behaviour will vary from card to card (and may also vary from setting to setting).

You at least have to trigger the settings to be saved. That requires you to change section or tab in TV Server configuration. Beyond that, the card driver may or may not apply the setting immediately - it might require a TV service restart, and in the worst cases it might require a Windows restart. I think TV Server configuration has a note about possibly requiring a TV Server restart...

PS: I don't remember whether I said this before but keep in mind you can use alt+enter to run MP in windowed mode and run MP and TV Server configuration side by side. This should allow you to figure out when/how the settings apply.