New User; TV Service Won't Start (1 Viewer)

[mm1352000]

Unfortunately, the hybrid tuner card setup instructions RonD pointed me to didn't improve the zero signal strength issue.

That is just a configuration thing. Normally we wouldn't expect it to fix that issue.

The only provider option available was 'generic'...

That doesn't sound right. It certainly isn't normal for Windows 7.
I wouldn't usually ask this, but are you absolutely 100% certain. When you do this:
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_...nfiguration/02_TV_Servers#Edit_Tuner_Settings
... for one of the ATSC tuners (ie. not the analog ones, and not the DVB-IP one), the preferred network provider has only the generic option?

...and after creating two tuner groups with the matching pairs of analog/digital 0 and analog/digital 1 tuners it still has a signal strength of zero on both.

Okay.

According to TVFool I am roughly 30 miles from many local broadcasters and should see signal strengths of -37 to -51 dB (in the TVFool 'green zone') on 19 different channels.

Well, I'm not sure exactly which dB unit they're using (there are a few variations), but that might mean signal is too weak.
From wikipedia:

40 dBµ or 0.1 mV/m: the minimum strength at which a station can be received with acceptable quality on most receivers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_strength

Also downloaded and ran the Hauppauge Digital Signal Quality tool and it shows zero SNR/zero signal for both tuner cards.

That would mean the tuners really aren't locking on signal. I note, make sure you have stopped the MP TV service when using this tool otherwise the tool will probably not be able to get readings from the tuner(s). To do this, open TV Server configuration, go to the "manual control" section and click "stop service".

I have a third 2250 in an unopened bag but I figure it must be a configuration issue so I won't crack that open except as a last resort.

Sounds wise to me.

These tuners came out of an HTPC that I used for years which I recently 'upgraded' to a four-tuner Ceton InfiniTV Cable Card (different machine), thanks to Comcast encrypting all their digital signals in my area. Thus the experimenting with the old tuners and OTA stations/antenna. WANT TO DUMP COMCAST. And Windows MCE... have had gobs of heartburn with that too.

You know about this, right?
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/cablecard-tuner-support-for-mediaportal-1.112585/
I'm not sure what Comcast's policy is with DRM but you may be able to get a bunch of channels through MP with the Ceton tuner.

In any case, can you confirm: have you ever used these tuners form OTA stations previously, or did you only use them for cable (clear QAM)?

I seem to bring out the worst in hardware/software. I should hire myself out as a computer 'cooler' (like a casino cooler only for technology). I can make _anything_ fail without even trying ;->

We'll get to the bottom of this.

I will try turning the machine completely off then restarting (I think I've done that at least once already though). If that doesn't work I guess I'll try a full uninstall of MP and reinstall. I really doubt that will help because I sincerely doubt the problem has anything to do with MP.

Yeah, I don't think it has anything to do with MP either. As above - those signal indications from TV Fool seem low to me. You may not be able to get OTA TV in your area unless you have a really good aerial... but maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, yeah... And just for further torture I will probably enable Windows MCE and see if _it_ has any luck tuning in...

For sure. Worth trying everything.

Wish me luck me 'earty's!!

That I do!

 

[RonD]

I've never tried any analog or hybrid tuner setup. In my SF Bay area I only have ATSC channels and I don't think there are any analog channels in my area. For a fresh MePo install, I just enable the ATSC tuners, disable the analog tuners, and never touch the "hybrid" tuners.

With the HVR-2250 signal strength tool, I have 2 copies in the WinTV Programs folder (SignalMonitor, SignalMonitor2). For testing I start both (2 windows), and when I do a MePo channel scan on a ATSC tuner, I see activity on 1 of the 2 copies SignalMonitor. If I scan the other tuner, activity shows on the other copy.

I wonder if there is some key database setup problem that causes MePo tuner config problems. When I've done a fresh MePo install, I've never had database setup problems.

MM, is there an easy way to "drop" the TV server database so the TV Server starts from a fresh virgin database?

imbs, if you go down the uninstall/re-install path, I'd suggest doing a "Full Product Cleanup", then reboot windows, before doing a new MePo install. See wiki
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_.../Uninstalling_MediaPortal?highlight=uninstall

 

[RonD]

On tvfool I'm also 25-30 miles from the local TV towers. Tvfool also shows green (An indoor "set-top" antenna is probably sufficient to pick up these channels) for these channels with signal strengths from -30 to -40 dBm for the channels I care about.

I use a small external antenna on my 2nd floor apartment patio and have adequate signal strength. My problem is multi-path with reflections off the hills around SF Bay. Moving the patio antenna 1-2 feet causes some channels to get better, others get worse. I need to find a "sweet spot" that gets good signals for the important channels for MePo tuners and "normal TVs".

 

[mm1352000]

I've never tried any analog or hybrid tuner setup. In my SF Bay area I only have ATSC channels and I don't think there are any analog channels in my area.

It is extremely unlikely there are analog OTA (NTSC) channels because the US have switched off analog OTA by federal mandate (I think). A few cable systems still have analog channels, but they're on their way out. These days analog tuners are more commonly used for connecting set-top-boxes to PCs.

For a fresh MePo install, I just enable the ATSC tuners, disable the analog tuners, and never touch the "hybrid" tuners.

Yep, that works too.

With the HVR-2250 signal strength tool, I have 2 copies in the WinTV Programs folder (SignalMonitor, SignalMonitor2). For testing I start both (2 windows), and when I do a MePo channel scan on a ATSC tuner, I see activity on 1 of the 2 copies SignalMonitor. If I scan the other tuner, activity shows on the other copy.

Right, so you're saying that the tool doesn't show signal strength unless you're using the tuner in another app? In that case cancel what I said before about stopping the TV service.

I wonder if there is some key database setup problem that causes MePo tuner config problems. When I've done a fresh MePo install, I've never had database setup problems.

Well, I wonder since it seems the database was installed independently or already existed...
Very occasionally we get people that install the database themselves and choose a case-sensitive collation (basically, "language" or "encoding"). The DB queries in the code were not generally written with great regard for case-sensitivity because few people use case-sensitive collations... and that caused problems with queries failing. I'd like to think that we've corrected most (if not all) of those issues over time. Haven't seen a report with those kinds of issues for years.

I find it rather odd that the DB was corrupt on a fresh install. Further, it seems strange that the DB appeared to have content in the TuningDetail table. You don't normally get that unless channels are present.

Anyhow, coming back to the reference to tuner configuration...
The network providers shown in the tuner settings don't depend on the DB in any way shape or form.

MM, is there an easy way to "drop" the TV server database so the TV Server starts from a fresh virgin database?

Yep, there is.
If you run setuptv.exe (in the TV Server install folder) with the /configure-db command line switch it will pop up the DB configuration dialog that you usually see after a fresh install. Then, just choose a different schema name, test, and confirm... et voilla: new DB!
For reference:
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_MEDIAPORTAL_1/141_Configuration/1_Command_Line_Options

imbs, if you go down the uninstall/re-install path, I'd suggest doing a "Full Product Cleanup", then reboot windows, before doing a new MePo install. See wiki

http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_.../Uninstalling_MediaPortal?highlight=uninstall

Yep, agreed.

 

[imbs]

... for one of the ATSC tuners (ie. not the analog ones, and not the DVB-IP one), the preferred network provider has only the generic option?

You are correct. I followed the instructions in the link you provided and it *does* list both ATSC and generic as providers. I noticed MP shows the Hauppauge tuners as type 'atsc' (I have attached a screen shot). Dunno if that sheds any light.

In any case, can you confirm: have you ever used these tuners form OTA stations previously, or did you only use them for cable (clear QAM)?

Nice catch. No, I have only used them for clear QAM cable, never OTA. HOWEVER, I have tried connecting the cable cable [sic] and still get zero signal level and the channel scan doesn't find any channels. Even though Comcast is encrypting the digital signals I believe I should still see a signal of some sort, n'est pas?

I don't think there are any analog channels in my area

It is extremely unlikely there are analog OTA (NTSC) channels because the US have switched off analog OTA by federal mandate (I think). A few cable systems still have analog channels, but they're on their way out.

Ditto here (SLC area). I thought the FCC had already terminated all analog broadcasts as of June 13, 2009, see: http://www.fcc.gov/topic/digital-television, but http://www.fcc.gov/guides/dtv-transition-and-lptv-class-translator-stations indicates September 1, 2015 is the termination date (I didn't read that thoroughly, may be referring to some peripheral broadcasting features). I am pretty sure all of our local broadcasters have stopped transmitting on analog. Comcast has definitely dropped analog signals in my area. Nothing but snow on my old TV's when connected directly to the cable without a cable box. Used to get a bunch of analog channels but not any more.

New data point regarding the antenna and signal strength. I hooked the 'mouse pad' antenna to one of those free FCC-mandated digital-analog converter boxes, hooked that to an old analog-only TV in the next room (a FULL 15 feet closer to the broadcaster's towers and it found 30 digital channels with the antenna laying on top of the TV! i.e not up on the wall or in a window. Receives all of those channels clear as a bell.

Thanks, MM and RonD for the suggestions. I will go heads down for awhile and see where I wind up, then report my new status.

 

[imbs]

UPDATE: Need to get my ADD medication checked. And time for you to put me in your kill file... ;-)

I am scanning with the Comcast cable attached, since I *know* these tuners used to work that way albeit in a different machine. Trying the various QAM tuning frequency options provided by the TV Server Configuration tool. FOUND SOME CHANNELS. But not immediately.

(Note: will be editing this to update results as I go)
QAM HRC+3 found NONE, which is the default QAM tuning frequency table in the configuration tool.
QAM HRC found NONE
QAM IRC found 330 channels
QAM Standard found 181 channels
QAM Standard Alternative found 216 channels
Will try OTA again using the 'mouse pad' antenna once I've completed QAM testing.

So, for future reference, if someone is having problems finding channels on cable they might try scanning multiple times using the various QAM options before declaring failure. Also, the various signal strength/signal quality bars only show the values for the currently tuned frequency (Duh!) so until a frequency is selected by the scan software (or TV watching program) that actually has a signal, the signal level will show zero. Duh again!

I think part of my issue was impatience... If it found nothing in the first minute or so I would throw up my hands, cancel the scan, and whine.
Whine whine whine. Not pretty.

 

[imbs]

OTA using the mouse pad antenna found 34 channels.

MY SINCEREST APOLOGIES, and thanks for the help. Sifting through the EPG instructions now.

 

[imbs]

For the sake of completeness, the configuration that I am using, which works, specifies *NO* hybrid cards defined, the analog tuners both disabled, the digital tuners set to the generic provider. I believe that combination was the key to my quest for signal.

I consider this issue resolved... Do I do anything to mark it as such or just leave it be?

 

[mm1352000]

OTA using the mouse pad antenna found 34 channels.

Fantastic.
No need to apologise - we all need a little help to figure things out occasionally, and that is what we're here for.

I consider this issue resolved... Do I do anything to mark it as such or just leave it be?

Nope, it is fine as is.

Happy TV watching!