*Turned out to be dead card* (was: PCIe tuner card only sometimes being detected on new motherboard) (1 Viewer)

[RobNorthcott]

EDIT: This turned out to be the card dying rather than a BIOS-related detection problem.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I've just built a new HTPC machine and all working fine except that the tuner card is only detected by (presumably) the BIOS occasionally. Rebooting multiple times eventually finds it, then it works fine, but it hardly ever works - doesn't appear in Device Manager a all.

I've tried various things in the BIOS, disabled fast boot and fiddled with PCIe Gen1/Gen2 settings with no luck. I'm running the latest BIOS for the board.

Motherboard is an ASUS H81I-PLUS, mini ITX with a single PCIe x16 slot (tuner is a x1 card)
Tuner is BlackGold BGT3600 (which had no problems on my ancient Athlon X2 system)

Anybody got any ideas or solved a similar problem before? (except try another mobo!)

 

[mm1352000]

Sounds like a typical hardware compatibility issue. If I were you I would contact Blackgold and ASUS for support.

 

[RobNorthcott]

Thanks for the reply. Actually it's looking worse now... I couldn't get it to detect at all, so tried it back in the old machine and it doesn't work in there either. Looks like the card was on the way out and is now completely dead
Any suggestions for a similar replacement? Is there any other twin DVB-S2 and DVB-T2 on the same card? (I've only got one slot)

 

[mm1352000]

Not under warranty?

Regarding a replacement...
Aside from the BGT3602 itself, I'm not aware of any "like-for-like" replacement. The closest is probably a Digital Devices combination (eg. a Cine S2 + DuoFlex C/T2)... but that isn't half height (well, the parts - Cine and DuoFlex - are individually half height, but full height if you combine them on a bracket), and you lose external input and FM radio support. If you want the DVB-C2 option for future-proofing then you can get the more expensive DuoFlex that supports it. Maybe that's close enough?
To be honest, you might be better looking for a dual DVB-T/T2 USB tuner and dual DVB-S/S2 PCIe tuner. There are more options for dual DVB-S2 cards, and you might find that cheaper too.

 

[RobNorthcott]

Yes, I did think about farming the DVB-T out to USB, but aren't there problems with USB tuners not working after standby? There seem to be lots of people moaning about BlackGold reliability, but it's easily the best tuner I've had for reception (Hauppauge was particularly rubbish) and has been rock-solid up to now (rather a coincidence that it died just after moving to the new machine - I'm hoping I broke it during the move rather than the new machine fried it).

Looks like a new BGT3602 is about £110 now (which is a lot less than the 3600 cost me), but is there something else that's considered better/as good/more reliable as a dual DVB-S2 tuner? Then what about USB DVB-T2 that survives standby and resume? (I use S/S2 most of the time so that's the important one, the T2 is mostly as a backup for if the wind moves the dish or if people are recording a lot at once).

TBH the only bad thing about BlackGold in my experience is the total lack of customer service (i.e. they never answer emails, ever). Other than that I haven't had a problem with the hardware (although a cooler-running card would be nice as it's in a small case now).

Any suggestions most welcome!

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again Rob

Please read the response below as my opinion - opinion... and nothing more.

...but aren't there problems with USB tuners not working after standby?

That would be news to me. Where did you hear/read of such problems?

The only reports I recall reading that might fit your description are situations when Windows assigns a USB tuner a new ID. Those reports are rare (the last one might have been 2 or even 3 years ago; so long that I don't remember for sure), and in each case my assessment was that the problems were particular to the setup (tuner USB chipset, tuner driver, host USB chipset, host USB chipset driver, other USB devices etc.). Therefore, I don't think it would be fair/accurate to use those reports as evidence that there's a significant general problem with USB tuners. The same assessment would apply to any hypothetical standby/resume reports (which I don't recall) too.

Let me put it this way: personally I wouldn't hesitate to get a USB tuner if that was what I wanted/needed.

There seem to be lots of people moaning about BlackGold reliability...

In my opinion that moaning is not without justification.

...but it's easily the best tuner I've had for reception (Hauppauge was particularly rubbish)

In my opinion it is a mistake to base tuner buying decisions on reception. If you have problematic signal strength/quality then it is always best to fix it at the source.

It is also a mistake to assume that all products from a given tuner vendor will perform similarly. Performance varies from product to product (and sometimes from revision to revision, or driver version to driver version), depending on a whole slew of factors including the characteristics of the product's components, the way the components are connected and laid out, the skill of the people who write the driver (as a programmer you can probably appreciate this! ) etc. etc. etc.. I would advise you to assess each product on its merits. In other words: don't assume all Hauppauge tuners are rubbish because you had a bad experience with one of them... or that all Blackgold tuners are great because you've had a good run with them. That advice applies to all vendors.

rather a coincidence that it died just after moving to the new machine - I'm hoping I broke it during the move rather than the new machine fried it

Both seem equally possible to me.

Looks like a new BGT3602 is about £110 now (which is a lot less than the 3600 cost me), but is there something else that's considered better/as good/more reliable as a dual DVB-S2 tuner?

I'm a bit uncertain about what you're asking here.

I don't prescribe to a view that would say "dual DVB-S2 tuners are inherently more (or less) reliable than a BGT3600/3602". As above, performance varies from product to product, so some dual DVB-S2 tuners are great while others are... not so great. All products have their quirks and flaws.

If you're asking for a specific dual DVB-S2 tuner recommendation: I don't feel comfortable giving a recommendation as I've never owned such a card.

Then what about USB DVB-T2 that survives standby and resume?

Again, I don't feel comfortable offering a recommendation as I've never owned a USB DVB-T2 tuner. All I can say is that I don't recall any specific problems with USB DVB-T2 tuners that don't survive standby/resume cycles. I do recall that some of the cheaper USB DVB-T2 tuners are slower to lock on signal.

TBH the only bad thing about BlackGold in my experience is the total lack of customer service (i.e. they never answer emails, ever).

I actually managed to get a response from them once a couple of years ago!
...but yes, there have been other times when I've received no response.
Have you ever tried to call them via phone?

Other than that I haven't had a problem with the hardware (although a cooler-running card would be nice as it's in a small case now).

I'm sure like me you've read the reports of BG tuners disappearing from Windows device manager after resume (or even not being detected on cold boot), and reports that the quad tuner cards run very hot.

Ultimately I guess you have to weigh all the factors that you think are relevant and make a decision. Obviously it will be important to try whatever tuner(s) you get ASAP after purchase so that you have the opportunity to return them under warranty if they prove to be no good.

Regards,
mm

 

[RobNorthcott]

Thanks for the long reply

I know generalisations are silly - I wouldn't really let brand be the final decider on what to go for, just mentioning that my experience with the BGT3600 has been really good (until now!) and if I'd not read other people's comments I'd not hesitate to buy another one (or a 3602). But some things are definitely true - it does run very hot, which is not good in a small case.

The stuff about USB tuners being a problem on resume was something I had in the back of my head from ages ago - and may not be true any more (or perhaps was never as common as I thought). If that's the case then that's good - splitting the tuners between PCIe and USB would be a good idea.

I'll change the title of this thread so it doesn't confuse people (as it turned out to be a failing card rather than a motherboard problem), and have a look around for a couple of tuners, perhaps something other than BG this time and see how it goes. No I've not tried ringing them BTW, just sent them a few questions by email over the time I've had the card and none were answered, which doesn't give a very good impression - they may be fantastically helpful on the phone for all I know.

 

[mm1352000]

You're very welcome!
I'll be interested to hear which tuner(s) you decide to get. In any case, hopefully it'll/they'll work out for you... but if they don't, I'm here to assist.

 

[RobNorthcott]

I'll let you know what I get and how it goes. The DD Cine cards seem hard to find at the moment (and very expensive), so possibly TBS or something. I don't really need dual T2, so if I can get away with a single USB T2 tuner it will save me a bit of cash. Looks like I could get a TBS dual S2 card plus a T2 USB tuner for about the price of a BGT3602, and putting the T2 tuner on USB has to be a good idea, both by getting some heat out of the case and meaning a card failure in the future won't mean no telly reception at all (and subsequent family moaning )

 

[Owlsroost]

Re. USB DVB-T2 tuners - see my thoughts here - https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/best-way-to-stream-virgin-media-tv.132003/#post-1151489