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MediaPortal 1
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Zoom : adding 'no aspect ratio change' in general settings
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<blockquote data-quote="NLS" data-source="post: 69189" data-attributes="member: 20102"><p>I think we should keep things simple (no percentages etc.), yet, give the user the control IF s/he want it.</p><p></p><p>The situation has four sides.</p><p></p><p>On one side is the film real aspect ratio. The aspect ratios of films are standard and few.</p><p></p><p>The second side is what method the channel used to broadcast this film. Sometimes we have a letterbox (either with the channel logo in or out, we don't care), sometimes they cut the sides, sometimes they cut some and use some smaller letterbox etc.</p><p></p><p>For the first two, the best MP can do, is to make code smarter and understand both the film aspect ratio AND what the channel has done to it. Detecting the black stripes (even if they include channel logo) would be a nice start.</p><p></p><p>The third side of the problem, is what aspect the viewing equipment of the user is. MP has full knowledge of this (should be defined in the configuration), plus 99% of viewing equipment falls into the 4:3 and 16:9 categories. I say it should be defined in the config, because there are some stupid plasma panels (erm, in fact most plasma panels) that use 4:3 or 1:1 resolutions ON a 16:9 area (how stupid can they get?).</p><p></p><p>The fourth side of the problem is WHAT THE USER WANTS. Here MP should give control plus allow for some standard settings.</p><p></p><p>Here is how I look at it with an example with mr. NLS.</p><p></p><p>Film is 2:35:1.</p><p>Channel broadcasts this on a 4:3 frame, cutting some of the left/right edges (and using some pan-n-scan for the scenes that the action is on the side, but we don't care about that) AND giving some black stripes over and under, giving a 16:9 frame, although the logo is on the top stripe, the bottom is NOT used for subtitles (because if it is, it is a different situation).</p><p></p><p>MP user mr. NLS, has a nice 16:9 (1920x1080) panel, that has DEFINED not only the resolution but also told MP that it is in fact 16:9 (and not a stupid plasma with long pixels).</p><p></p><p>mr. NLS, wants to see this film as 16:9 and the work that the broacasters did, in fact HELPS.</p><p></p><p>What MP should do.</p><p></p><p>- Detect the black bars (ignoring the small static picture that probably is the channel logo).</p><p>- Detects that nothing messes with the black bars for a while (no subtitles) but remembers to check if something pops there.</p><p>- Detect the aspect ratio of the real viewing area. Finds it very close to 16:9 (maybe 16:9.2).</p><p>- Decide that this could be viewed to the real viewing device the user has as the user has declared that he uses a 16:9 display.</p><p>- Resize to the edges, cutting out the black bars (and logo).</p><p></p><p>...Now if something pops on the bottom bar, MP automaticaly changes the display to the original, with black stripes left and right (the original broadcast is 4:3 remember and the panel 16:9), so that the user can read if something popped. This functionality should be switchable though (btw, this functionality shouldn't affect the recording that records the full 4:3 frame in original resolution anyway).</p><p></p><p>Now if the user decides that what was down there isn't something that should bother him, he should go to the (future) aspect menu of MP and click "revert to previous setting and lock".</p><p></p><p>There should also be a setting "revert to previous setting" (i.e. no lock, i.e. it will happen again).</p><p></p><p>MP should keep track of what it did on the specific channel but RE-evaluate if the user switches back and forth the same channel (because the film may have ended and something else could be there using the whole 4:3 frame).</p><p></p><p>MP aspect ratio menu should have those entries:</p><p></p><p>Keep original broadcast frame</p><p>Autodetect real firm frame</p><p>Revert to previous setting and lock</p><p>Revert to previous setting</p><p>Pan and Scan (cut film sides) [only possible on 4:3 displays]</p><p>Letterbox (add black stripes up and down) [only possible on 4:3 displays]</p><p>Zoom to 16:9 frame (cut up and down areas) [only possible on 16:9 displays... like Pan & Scan for 16:9]</p><p>Sidebox (add black stripes left and right) [only possible on 16:9 displays... like Letterbox but for 16:9)</p><p>Expand [only possible on 16:9 displays, will resize 4:3 frame to 16:9]</p><p>Shrink [only possible on 4:3 displays, will resize 16:9 to 4:3... like cinemascope movie openings <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ]</p><p>Smart Expand [as expand but will expand sides more than the center]</p><p>Smart Shrink [as shrink but will shrink sides more than center]</p><p>Manual resize</p><p></p><p>(also the menu should be fully viewable and not scrollable, because you would need this to be done quick and easy... also remember that options not possible on a specific display, should not be in the menu... 16:9 options in 4:3 and the opposite)</p><p></p><p>Manual resize should take you to a process, where it shows the full broadcast frame and a crawling line (red/white) is drawn at the edges. Crowling line is important because else the moving features of the film, will not allow you to see it. Left-right cursor should widden or shrink the rectangle left and right (always centered). Up-down cursor should widden or shrink the rectangle up and down (again always centered).</p><p></p><p>NOTE that this should allow for the user to move BOTH inside the real broadcast frame AND outside. If someone moves outside, then as the rectangle for example grows left right, the broadcast should shrink and black stripes should grow on top and bottom. If someone moves INSIDE the broadcast frame (let say left-right again), then IF the other two sides (top-bottom in our case), are also shrunk, the broadcast frame should grow, up to the point that the up and down sides (the crowl not the film) touch the real screen edges. Now you understand that if the user keeps shrinking left-right past this, then the red/white crowl would start "moving" inside the broadcast frame's left and right edges. (and yes if then you try to shrink up-down, you in fact zoom in until the left-right crowls touch the real display edges)</p><p></p><p>Now for the smart expand and smart shrink. These are the functions people described again above in the thread. The smart functionality MOST 16:9 TV give nowadays (so why not MP), that expands (and as I said can work for shrink to 4:3 too) the sides more than the center and more and more as you go to the edge. This should use some sine curve function, not discrete areas (because at the point where discrete areas touch, the "step" would be easily noticed).</p><p></p><p>I was very detailed so that people understand, but in fact I describe a very simple functionality (ok smart expand/shrink not simple but the rest are). It should be easy to be done in 10 secs at the begining of a film and of course remembered for that channel (even if the user switches channel), unless the detected frames change aspect (ie. the film ended and something else is shown using the whole screen).</p><p></p><p>Of course for recorder video, this should be in the recorded info for the file (like the position is recorded now).</p><p></p><p>Now if all the above is done, we are talking about perfection and something not touched that much by any other software (well, I think - btw I know of software that does smart expand)...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NLS, post: 69189, member: 20102"] I think we should keep things simple (no percentages etc.), yet, give the user the control IF s/he want it. The situation has four sides. On one side is the film real aspect ratio. The aspect ratios of films are standard and few. The second side is what method the channel used to broadcast this film. Sometimes we have a letterbox (either with the channel logo in or out, we don't care), sometimes they cut the sides, sometimes they cut some and use some smaller letterbox etc. For the first two, the best MP can do, is to make code smarter and understand both the film aspect ratio AND what the channel has done to it. Detecting the black stripes (even if they include channel logo) would be a nice start. The third side of the problem, is what aspect the viewing equipment of the user is. MP has full knowledge of this (should be defined in the configuration), plus 99% of viewing equipment falls into the 4:3 and 16:9 categories. I say it should be defined in the config, because there are some stupid plasma panels (erm, in fact most plasma panels) that use 4:3 or 1:1 resolutions ON a 16:9 area (how stupid can they get?). The fourth side of the problem is WHAT THE USER WANTS. Here MP should give control plus allow for some standard settings. Here is how I look at it with an example with mr. NLS. Film is 2:35:1. Channel broadcasts this on a 4:3 frame, cutting some of the left/right edges (and using some pan-n-scan for the scenes that the action is on the side, but we don't care about that) AND giving some black stripes over and under, giving a 16:9 frame, although the logo is on the top stripe, the bottom is NOT used for subtitles (because if it is, it is a different situation). MP user mr. NLS, has a nice 16:9 (1920x1080) panel, that has DEFINED not only the resolution but also told MP that it is in fact 16:9 (and not a stupid plasma with long pixels). mr. NLS, wants to see this film as 16:9 and the work that the broacasters did, in fact HELPS. What MP should do. - Detect the black bars (ignoring the small static picture that probably is the channel logo). - Detects that nothing messes with the black bars for a while (no subtitles) but remembers to check if something pops there. - Detect the aspect ratio of the real viewing area. Finds it very close to 16:9 (maybe 16:9.2). - Decide that this could be viewed to the real viewing device the user has as the user has declared that he uses a 16:9 display. - Resize to the edges, cutting out the black bars (and logo). ...Now if something pops on the bottom bar, MP automaticaly changes the display to the original, with black stripes left and right (the original broadcast is 4:3 remember and the panel 16:9), so that the user can read if something popped. This functionality should be switchable though (btw, this functionality shouldn't affect the recording that records the full 4:3 frame in original resolution anyway). Now if the user decides that what was down there isn't something that should bother him, he should go to the (future) aspect menu of MP and click "revert to previous setting and lock". There should also be a setting "revert to previous setting" (i.e. no lock, i.e. it will happen again). MP should keep track of what it did on the specific channel but RE-evaluate if the user switches back and forth the same channel (because the film may have ended and something else could be there using the whole 4:3 frame). MP aspect ratio menu should have those entries: Keep original broadcast frame Autodetect real firm frame Revert to previous setting and lock Revert to previous setting Pan and Scan (cut film sides) [only possible on 4:3 displays] Letterbox (add black stripes up and down) [only possible on 4:3 displays] Zoom to 16:9 frame (cut up and down areas) [only possible on 16:9 displays... like Pan & Scan for 16:9] Sidebox (add black stripes left and right) [only possible on 16:9 displays... like Letterbox but for 16:9) Expand [only possible on 16:9 displays, will resize 4:3 frame to 16:9] Shrink [only possible on 4:3 displays, will resize 16:9 to 4:3... like cinemascope movie openings :) ] Smart Expand [as expand but will expand sides more than the center] Smart Shrink [as shrink but will shrink sides more than center] Manual resize (also the menu should be fully viewable and not scrollable, because you would need this to be done quick and easy... also remember that options not possible on a specific display, should not be in the menu... 16:9 options in 4:3 and the opposite) Manual resize should take you to a process, where it shows the full broadcast frame and a crawling line (red/white) is drawn at the edges. Crowling line is important because else the moving features of the film, will not allow you to see it. Left-right cursor should widden or shrink the rectangle left and right (always centered). Up-down cursor should widden or shrink the rectangle up and down (again always centered). NOTE that this should allow for the user to move BOTH inside the real broadcast frame AND outside. If someone moves outside, then as the rectangle for example grows left right, the broadcast should shrink and black stripes should grow on top and bottom. If someone moves INSIDE the broadcast frame (let say left-right again), then IF the other two sides (top-bottom in our case), are also shrunk, the broadcast frame should grow, up to the point that the up and down sides (the crowl not the film) touch the real screen edges. Now you understand that if the user keeps shrinking left-right past this, then the red/white crowl would start "moving" inside the broadcast frame's left and right edges. (and yes if then you try to shrink up-down, you in fact zoom in until the left-right crowls touch the real display edges) Now for the smart expand and smart shrink. These are the functions people described again above in the thread. The smart functionality MOST 16:9 TV give nowadays (so why not MP), that expands (and as I said can work for shrink to 4:3 too) the sides more than the center and more and more as you go to the edge. This should use some sine curve function, not discrete areas (because at the point where discrete areas touch, the "step" would be easily noticed). I was very detailed so that people understand, but in fact I describe a very simple functionality (ok smart expand/shrink not simple but the rest are). It should be easy to be done in 10 secs at the begining of a film and of course remembered for that channel (even if the user switches channel), unless the detected frames change aspect (ie. the film ended and something else is shown using the whole screen). Of course for recorder video, this should be in the recorded info for the file (like the position is recorded now). Now if all the above is done, we are talking about perfection and something not touched that much by any other software (well, I think - btw I know of software that does smart expand)... [/QUOTE]
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