A sad, but temporary, farewell... (1 Viewer)

[quiller]

It is with regret and a tinge of guilt that I feel compelled to tell my story. A few months ago, I started my quest to build and customize a PVR for my main entertainment room. I started off by converting my desktop--which had recently seen little use since my job bought me a shiny new Thinkpad--into a fileserver and hooking it up to my television. I was going to convert to Linux, but then I heard about MediaPortal, which sure looked and sounded like the Windows equivalent of MythTV.

After a trip to newegg, I plugged in my new PVR-150 and PVR-500 and started playing. It took awhile--including switching the 500 for one with the non-sucky tuners--but eventually everything was up and running. I even got so far as making numerous changes to the default BlueTwo skin, which will appear on these forums in a few days. Unfortunately, the picture quality never improved enough to meet my (or my sports-obsessed roommates) standards.

Fast-forward a few more days and I've install Ubuntu Edgy and MythTV. Much to my surprise, the move was smooth and easy. By rough estimate (and excluding the delay caused by the bad PVR-500), it took about 1/4 the time to setup and generally customize MythTV as MediaPortal--and that includes installing and configuring Linux, which I'd never installed before.

As of now, MythTV is my future. I'm building an uber-powerful Windows XP/Vista server in a few days, however, and will continue following and occasionally using MediaPortal. The upside is huge, and the progress of the new TV engine looks very promising. To be fair, I haven't tried MediaPortal again since swapping my ATI Radeon 9550 (which worked on MP but was basically unsupported for Myth) for a nVidia FX-5500, but considering what I saw of the ATI, I don't think it would make enough of a quality difference to matter.

For the final breakdown, I thought it might be useful (especially to those thinking big-picture about MediaPortal's future) to list the major factors, in my experience:

MediaPortal

• The skins are more attractive, especially the default BlueTwo, than most of what is available for MythTV.
• Remote control. Setting up my MCE remote was basically plug-and-play, compared to compiling and configuring lirc for Myth. Customizing buttons depending on the active screen is also a lovely feature, even if I never got much use out of all the flexibility.
• Internal video/DVD player. It's the same experience as watching live or recorded TV, where (as of yet) Myth's internal player isn't anything special. I'm stuck with using an external player (xine), which also means mapping my remote to that program (annoying) and the OSD changing (awkward).

MythTV

• Commercial skipping. I never tried it under the new engine, but Myth's got this built-in, and it works great. I haven't even gotten to customizing the options, and I don't know if I ever will.
• The "frontend" holds so many configuration options, meaning I don't need to use a keyboard or shutdown the GUI to change anything important, like I need to in MediaPortal.
• Picture quality. No messing with third-party codecs (the only one that got anywhere close to acceptable in MP was a commercial option). From the beginning, the picture quality was perfect.
• Overall visual appeal. While the skins of MP might be more visually appealing, they never "felt" like other STB interfaces. Myth looks and acts like my Time Warner DVR STB plus five years.
• Stability. It's Linux, for crying out loud! It turned out that a lot of my stability problems with MP came from an always-fragmented hard drive. Even running a defrag every night couldn't keep up with how fast a Windows machine gets fragmented. (I don't hold this against MediaPortal, either.)

 

[samuel337]

Wow, they must've gotten the new version of myth into the repository - that's how you installed it right?

You're also using analog hardware, which has been out longer so its more stable. Took me ages to get my DVBT card driver installed.

What do you think of the music module? Or is that not a priority for you?

Its definitely more polished than MP in some areas, hell they've had the client/server thing going on for ages. And the whole 10-foot GUI for configuration is very nice indeed. Then again, MP has a few more plugins available and is generally easier to customise I reckon, but that's only if you want to get into the nitty-gritty bits.

Sam

 

[Rhys.Goodwin]

Interesting. I've been using linux for about 4 years now but mainly just server and backend stuff. I run a samba domain at home with ubuntu edgy for the PDC. So when I set out to build a PVR my first thought was myth. I installed and got it all up and running with a network client. It was OK. I was pretty happy with it but when I went to pick up my sky star DVB-S card the guy showed me his Media Portal setup. I went home and installed and never looked back(Now running TVServer). I just find it to be so much more shiney and "nice" I found mythtv "clunky". I find most desktop linux clunky compared to windows. Mind you after installing ubuntu edgy if found it so nice (for linux!) I thought I could ALMOST use it as a desktop O/S.Almost!;-) I was also patial to MP since it's C# which I tinker with a bit so there was the posibility being able to write my own pulgins etc. My 2 cents worth.

I don't know what you mean by "picture quality never improved enough". It's only the quality of the card of the reception that could make any difference to the picture quality, isn't it?. MPEG is MPEG On the other hand I found the "picture quality" of the things like the OSD in myth to be under par.

 

[quiller]

Wow, they must've gotten the new version of myth into the repository - that's how you installed it right?

Indeed. It's in the official Ubuntu repos, and I think Fedora and some others have Myth in the repos, as well. Of course, there's always the KnoppMyth Live CD, which makes it unfairly easy to install!

What do you think of the music module? Or is that not a priority for you?

In Myth, it's outstanding. The interface takes a bit to get the hang of, but even my non-tech roommates were running away with playlists within 15 minutes. I never got the hang of MP's music interface, so there's not even a shred of competition from my viewpoint.

You're also using analog hardware, which has been out longer so its more stable. Took me ages to get my DVBT card driver installed.

That's probably a very important point. I've never messed with DVB on either side, and I don't plan on having a digital or HD tuner for quite awhile, so I'm not too worried for now...

Then again, MP has a few more plugins available and is generally easier to customise I reckon, but that's only if you want to get into the nitty-gritty bits.

I think MP has more, but most of the impressive ones have counterparts on both sides.

I just find it to be so much more shiney and "nice" I found mythtv "clunky".

At first, I agree: the skins under MP are very attractive. After seeing the skins for Myth, though, I think I've identified the difference: Myth's skins look like a console/STB interface; Media Portal's look like... well, nothing I've seen, and that irks me a little. The biggest difference comes between the OSD skins, where Myth really shines.

I don't know what you mean by "picture quality never improved enough". It's only the quality of the card of the reception that could make any difference to the picture quality, isn't it?. MPEG is MPEG

I'd agree, except that the hardware didn't change and from the start Myth's quality was great. I had some problems getting the picture size right (it was either oversized or had a blue tint) with my ATI card, but even then the quality itself was superb. Whatever Myth is doing on that front, it's the most important factor to me; that I like other aspects of Myth is a bonus.

I'd love to keep this discussion of Myth v. MP going, but let's make sure it doesn't turn into a flame war. If you haven't used both--and recently, as both are under active and frequent development--or aren't interested in comparing the two, then maybe don't say anything too drastic. In short, it's time we had a good discussion on the two leading HTPC software options.

 

[Muldini]

Was also thinking about MythTV as I just like the Linux idea (could turn off my seperate Linux box then )

This killed it instantly:
http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/vie...0&postorder=asc&highlight=transponder&start=0

With MP I wont ever need more than 3 cards for my personal needs. Thats watching one transponder and record on max. 2 other transponders (with 2 channels each).

Thats already 5+ cards under MythTV. Any "bonus" you might want to record while your usual recordings are going on is another card again.

Ill install it for a quick picture quality check anyway, since your post made me being interested

Regards, Muldini

 

[mulva]

I've been supporting Linux and Windows (personally and professionally) for many years now and agree that the stability of Linux is without question. That being said, I agree with Rhys.Goodwin regarding Linux desktop. It's continuously "almost there". This is why companies and the general public shy away from it and treat it as a hobby desktop OS. I haven't even been able to convince my kids to use it. I use it for all my intranet services.

My dedicated PVRs would suit MythTV perfectly if there was a Windows-based client. I don't think there is one which is the reason that I've started with MediaPortal. Don't get me wrong, I think MP is fantastic...but my weekly Windows XP reboot is pretty annoying.

I have two questions for anyone that cares to answer:

1) Does anyone know if there is a Windows client for MythTV?
2) Has anyone used Windows 2003 Server to run the TV server engine and is it stable?

No, I don't want to use virtualisation on the desktop to give me a Linux image.

Thanks.

 

[infinite.loop]

2) Has anyone used Windows 2003 Server to run the TV server engine and is it stable?

yes it works.
tv-server is as stable as on an WinXP installation

 

[samuel337]

Wow, they must've gotten the new version of myth into the repository - that's how you installed it right?

Indeed. It's in the official Ubuntu repos, and I think Fedora and some others have Myth in the repos, as well. Of course, there's always the KnoppMyth Live CD, which makes it unfairly easy to install!

What do you think of the music module? Or is that not a priority for you?

In Myth, it's outstanding. The interface takes a bit to get the hang of, but even my non-tech roommates were running away with playlists within 15 minutes. I never got the hang of MP's music interface, so there's not even a shred of competition from my viewpoint.

Hmm... seems like they've done some work on the music module. Maybe its time to update my dual-booting HTPC with the new Ubuntu now...

Yes everyone, you heard right, my MP HTPC dual boots with myth

Just thought of something - did you get the wake up feature working? Because when I was configuring myth 0.19, it got too confusing when I came to that and I gave up.

Sam

 

[quiller]

That being said, I agree with Rhys.Goodwin regarding Linux desktop. It's continuously "almost there". This is why companies and the general public shy away from it and treat it as a hobby desktop OS. I haven't even been able to convince my kids to use it. I use it for all my intranet services.

Is Linux not-quite-there or not-Windows? Ubuntu, specifically, is easier to install than Windows XP, but most people aren't installing Windows from scratch, anyway. I think the main thing keeping Linux from going mainstream is OEM support: the average person can buy OS X or Windows pre-installed, but there's no such option (or, if there is, no mainstream, brick-and-mortar option) for *nix.

1) Does anyone know if there is a Windows client for MythTV?

There's not a true client front-end, but there is a GUI which brings over recorded programs (and essentially everything but live TV). I know they are working on a Windows front-end, with some unsubstantiated rumors that it might release with 0.21.

That being said, I agree with Rhys.Goodwin regarding Linux desktop. It's continuously "almost there". This is why companies and the general public shy away from it and treat it as a hobby desktop OS. I haven't even been able to convince my kids to use it. I use it for all my intranet services.

I've never used any of the wake-up features in either MP or Myth, mostly because my HTPC does other things (e.g. music, web server) and never really has much time to sleep. Still, what distro were you using? I'd be glad to help you if that was the only feature holding you back from trying out Myth again.

 

[wishywashy]

Dell is getting ready to sell PC's with linux preinstalled.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/02/27/dell_to_sell_linux_pcs/