[confirm] ATSC scanning problem (1 Viewer)

[Marbles_00]

Very interesting. Do you mind if I forward your reply (direct quote as I don't think I could explain it better) to the broadcaster? There are many people having issues with picking them up since they reverted back to their VHF RF11 channel allocation (their transitional channel was on RF18). We were all figuring it was because the reduced ERP was the cause of the issue (and it still could be), but there's a chance that individuals TV tuners are having problems with this PID assignment.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again folks

Patch is attached as promised. Please test both scanning and viewing of RF 11 in particular. If one of you is brave enough to delete your channel list (you can always back it up and then restore it using the built in import/export function) then I'd also appreciate your perspective on whether this version is better at picking up channel names. The reason I ask is that I found and fixed the reason why the VCT is only parsed once. I'm now 100% certain that there would be times when channels *should* be given proper names but they're not - the "race condition" description I gave earlier was accurate.

Anyhow I'm off to be - I look forward to your feedback.
mm

 

[mm1352000]

Very interesting. Do you mind if I forward your reply (direct quote as I don't think I could explain it better) to the broadcaster? There are many people having issues with picking them up since they reverted back to their VHF RF11 channel allocation (their transitional channel was on RF18). We were all figuring it was because the reduced ERP was the cause of the issue (and it still could be), but there's a chance that individuals TV tuners are having problems with this PID assignment.

By all means, definitely go ahead! If the provider is responsive to your comments and fixes the problem then I think that would be the best outcome for all concerned. I'd also be happy to respond to any comments or questions directly - just PM me and I'll give you my email address.

mm

 

[x4mer]

To get you the channel running right now, all you need to do:

.......

To let you know CKCO on RF13 came through for me with a normal scan. It was indicated to me that they are still testing that channel, so you may have success or not, but regardless, this bug didn't seem to affect RF13 from what I could tell.

Thanks for the instructions Marbles.

I saw some mention, on digitalhome, of a CKCO press release which mentioned digital availability on 13-1. I went and checked and 13 was still analogue. Just checked again now, and still analogue. When was digital up and running?

 

[Migue]

Here are my logs with latest svn without and with the patch.

In both cases I had the same result. All channels including encrypted ones were detected (1.2 beta only picked up unencrypted ones), but all have the green icon. The only way to determine if a channel is encrypted or not is that the unencrypted ones have a value of "unknown" in the "Provider" field and encrypted ones have no value at all.

With patches it seems a few more channels were picked up (302 vs 297) and I think that for the channel names there was no difference between them. Of the unencrypted channels around half had channel name.

 

[Marbles_00]

I saw some mention, on digitalhome, of a CKCO press release which mentioned digital availability on 13-1. I went and checked and 13 was still analogue. Just checked again now, and still analogue. When was digital up and running?

They tested the signals the other night, from around 1 in the morning until about 5. RF9 and RF13 were both recognized in MP (minus station name). They may be testing periodically at night from now until August 31st. Don't think they are doing an early transition, but it would be great if they did.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi Migue

Thanks for dropping in and testing.

In both cases I had the same result.

I'd agree - I don't see much difference between the two sets of logs.

All channels including encrypted ones were detected (1.2 beta only picked up unencrypted ones), but all have the green icon. The only way to determine if a channel is encrypted or not is that the unencrypted ones have a value of "unknown" in the "Provider" field and encrypted ones have no value at all.

Hmmm, that's not so good. The few people who use MP for QAM that I've spoken to report that it is a real pain to have to rename all the channels - it is also a pain to have to figure out which are encrypted or not. I'd like to see if we can find a way to better determine whether the channels are encrypted, however QAM seems to be quite different to ATSC. ATSC channels usually have the VCT available (so names, encrypted/not encrypted can be easily determined...) whereas the VCT is not available for most of your QAM channels. Perhaps it is only available for the unencrypted ones...

With patches it seems a few more channels were picked up (302 vs 297) and I think that for the channel names there was no difference between them. Of the unencrypted channels around half had channel name.

Yes, this is again a reflection of the fact that your QAM providers don't seem to broadcast the VCT. Having said that, can we come to some agreement about how channels without name information should be named? It seems people absolutely despise the "Unknown ..." naming pattern. To me it seems completely nonsensical for the broadcasters not to provide names through the VCT or SDT. It also feels unnatural to me to use "<major channel>-<minor channel>" or "<physical channel>-<SID>" but if that is the way things are done over there then we should follow the conventions. The information we have available is (I think):
- physical channel number
- frequency
- service ID

When VCT is provided, we also usually get:
- major channel number (not sure whether this is the same as physical channel)
- minor channel number

When VCT is provided, we sometimes get:
- service name

Thoughts???

mm

 

[x4mer]

Here's my logs with latest tswriter & tvlibrary you provided.

I took up the challenge, and deleted all my channels. CHCH RF 11 scanned in fine now, and all 27(?) of my ATSC channels got named properly on the first scan. Proper names for all on first scan normally doesn't happen, but I'd always chalked it up to weak signal or weather, as a second scan would usually fetch the names missed the first time. The only one missing a name (16.7), is an audio only PBS radio feed, carried as a subchannel on PBS TV coming out of Rochester NY.

Wiping down to a clean slate, has revealed one other problem, in that scanning for analogue cable channels causes a BSOD at the end of the scan, or if I click cancel at any point during the scan. Service is set to restart on first two failures & do nothing on 3rd. It's been quite a while since I've had any need to scan analogue cable though, as things rarely change there. It may just be the tuner driver I'm currently on - gonna try rolling back.

EDIT: Actually that 16.7 feed is a problem, since normally it would only show up in the radio channels section, not in the TV channels section after a scan.

 

[mm1352000]

Thanks x4mer

I'm still not entirely satisfied as the RF 11 scan took 20 seconds, which means it ran to the scan timeout. I'll try and look into that this evening. Do you have logs for the analog cable scan as well? Maybe the tuner just doesn't like "pause mode". Are you able to test if changing from pause to stop fixes the BSOD?

mm

 

[x4mer]

I'll look into the pause mode option, as well as my drivers. However, I shouldn't have even mentioned it in this thread, as it's a different problem with a different type of signal. I'll start a new thread regarding analogue scanning if I can't find a solution. I tried rolling back the files to the original 1.2b files, and it still BSODs.

Thank you very much for sticking with this ATSC scanning thread, and providing patches to try.

Does the fact that 16.7 now shows up in the TV section instead of Radio, where it always went before, have something to do with the changes you made to allow CHCH to slip through the standards check?

EDIT: The problem with BSOD on analogue scan, was tracked down to the driver included in the latest CD bundle on Hauppauge's site. Using the latest stand alone driver release, analogue scan runs fine.