Choosing an LCD tv

Discussion in 'Displays' started by bigajm, December 5, 2006.

  1. bigajm

    bigajm New Member

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    This may be wandering out of scope for MediaPortal's forums, but can anyone give advice about choosing an LCD tv to go with my shiny new MP HTPC ? :)

    For example, I like the look of the Samsung 26" LE26R74BDX, but this tv has only a "PC D-sub" connection. I presume this is just a standard monitor connection, whereas my PC's graphics card has a DVI output - but would I really be able to see the difference between the two?



    Also, that tv has a native resolution of 1366 x 768 but my MP HTPC's desktop runs at 1280 x 1024. Does this matter or should I try to get a closer match between the two? I'd like to use the LCD for both HTPC and surfing/email etc.

    regards
    -andy
     
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  3. ARH

    ARH Portal Member

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    I run a toshiba 32wlt66 from a nvidia 5500 graphics card, tried the VGA connection but had trouble with resolution, changed to the dvi-hdmi and the picture is far better. the windows desktop is not quite so clear but video performance is far betterthrogh dvi than vga
     
  4. Mr Hipp
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    Mr Hipp Retired Team Member

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    If you live in PAL country;
    What is very important is that LCD tv can handle 50 Hz in its native resolution
    (1366 x 768) when connected to the HTPC. If not then you will not get a good picture. Make sure to check this before buy.
     
  5. knutinh

    knutinh Portal Pro

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    Two major topics should be satisfied ideally:
    1. Good general image quality. This has very little to do with specs, you should view the image yourself with a variety of sources.

    2. Good PC-connectivity. You should tell the salesman that you want:
    *1:1 pixel, typically lcd tvs capable of receiving the resolution that their physical display is using. Youd be amazed at how many tvs have a _hard-wired_ scaler/cropper inserted into the signal chain.
    *Flexible framerates while doing 1:1, At least 50Hz, 60Hz and 24/48/72 for viewing PAL, NTSC and theatre material at optimum quality.
    *All of this should be availale on HDMI so that you can actually use it when the ICT flag is enforced in 2012.

    If the salesman does not know what this is, then find another.

    Note that Samsung has never ever to my knowledge released a lcd-tv that satisfy the demands above for PC compatibility. Philips and Sony recently did for their very newest models. LG has a good track-record.

    regards
    Knut
     
  6. CHli

    CHli Portal Pro

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    What about Full HD ? I think this is the only way to go for the future.

    Philips released 1:1 screens ? I don't know any ?

    I heard that only the w2000 models accept 24 fps (x2/x3) framerate ?

    Do you have any other models under the hood ?
     
  7. knutinh

    knutinh Portal Pro

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    I have read a BBC paper that basically says that :
    1. The typical english viewer watch tv at 2.7 meters distance
    2. That distance is not likely to change unless they break any walls
    3. At that distance youll need 53 inches or more to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p under ideal conditions with any significance.
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3414608&postcount=148

    "The Philips does not downconvert to 540p - thats a fact. Neither did last years 37PF9830 (the previous generation 9986 did though). It properly de-interlaces (i.e. motion adaptive) 1080i to 1080p (the subject has been covered in past articles).

    The 37PF9731 also does 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI (although I suspect by mistake!!) when fed with 1080i."


    I think there is a misconception of what 1:1 pixel means here, but basically it seems that the tv will do 1080@30p with no scaling or overscan if buried in a 60i stream.

    I would have preferred to reserve the term "1:1 pixel" to truely progressively encoded frames (so as to exclude badly implemented interlacers/deinterlacers) at 60fps or more.
    Pioneer plasmas have very good video quality and will do IVTC and 3:3 pulldown of 24p material (movies) that are encoded as 60i into a visual 72p.

    Even though they are typically non-square pixels and only 1024x768 resolution, I think that they give some of the better video images out there, and that is what counts, isnt it?
     
  8. CHli

    CHli Portal Pro

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    To display video I totally agree that having a Full HD is pretty useless at this distance but having a 1920x1080 panel let you display more on the same screen size E.G. When surfing the web. So Full HD is for me natural when using the screen as an HTPC monitor. (+ no downscaling of 1080p/i source)

    Ok for me this is pure junk :D And Philips products are way to expensive for what they offer. I want true 1080p at 48/50/60/ + eventually 100 or 120 for game (this need to be proved !)

    Pioneer Plasma's are good indeed but they are subject to logos marking. So I'll pass my way !


    Sorry atm the only solutions in FullHD seems to be for Europe the Sony W2000 and X2000 series (apparently the X series doesn't provide 24 fps compatible mode even if it is a higher end model...), Sharp Aquos XD1 Series (don't know about 24 fps compatibility and they seem to suffer from some problem with the first models, banding and power supply buzzing, but sharp said these will be corrected soon)

    So no real solutions atm :(
     
  9. knutinh

    knutinh Portal Pro

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    I am a bit uncertain here, but the test was done with still-images with plenty of high-frequency content. And apparently it is in line with previous tests on the limit of the eye to resolve details. I was under the impression that once you cross that line, adding more spectral detail gives exactly no difference regardless of content.

    I agree that this "visual resoulution limit" should be higher for textual content than typical video content simply because text typically contains more high-frequency content than video.

    But once that line is crossed, it should be impossible to spot any difference between true 1080p material, and 1080p computer images that are scaled down to a 768p screen of similar quality. Agree?
    Philips are expensive and theyve got that silly back-lighting. But they are at the forefront of video dsp for tv use. Sadly, most of that dsp power will sit idle when you are using purely HTPC as a source, but it may come to good use if you want to watch poor-quality analog cable tv (and many lcd buyers actually do that).
    What is "logos"?
    One forum user has the Amoi 37" 1:1pixel 1080p display. It will do 50Hz and 60Hz, not shure if it can do nx24Hz thou. And given its price, it is surely worse than alternatives mentioned by you when it comes to other things like contrast etc.

    -k
     
  10. CHli

    CHli Portal Pro

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    Ok I see more or less what you try to explain :D But the fact is that you can display more informations on a 1920x1080 panel that on a 1280x720 (or 1366*768 etc) is just true :D I can always sit closer to my panel if I have more informations on it (when sending true 1080p to the TV of course)

    Totally agree, but I want to use HTPC as my only source so I don't need terific DSP :D

    Sorry it's certainly a problem with my english :)

    When displaying a channel for a long time or when using a game console with some static graphics (an OSD or something like that) on a plasma these static images can "mark" the display so that when you display another image you can still see the OSD or the channel logo. That's bad and hasn't been totally solved for now.

    Yup I know something about Amoi since I followed their products for some time now, the main problem is that's very hard to see one in Switzerland. (I won't buy before I can try)


    Ever visited : http://pixelmapping.wikispaces.com/ ?
     
  11. Deco

    Deco Portal Pro

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    Been looking at this myself; the mother-in-law is looking for new TV so I'm hoping to give her my CRT and get an LCD.

    The Mirai 32" LCD looks like good value and is getting good reviews on the 'net. I'm gonna go for this unless someone tells me otherwise ...

    Deco.
     
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