Ongoing Diary of an HTPC Dabbler (1 Viewer)

[dcwp]

I'm getting ready for another major upgrade to my MP system so I thought I'd start a thread documenting my progress. The problem is that I can't figure out where to start, or for that matter how I'll know when I'm finished.

Up until now, the driving principle for me has been achieving minimum performance with the least cost. My new project still has budget in mind, but as you'll see, I'm more interested in high performance. So if you'll endulge, I'll start from the very beginning and document my long history of dabbling with HTPCs, bringing me up to my current rebuild.

If this is too long and historical for this forum, let me know and I'll cut it off. Otherwise, I'd love to hear about some of your early experiments as well.

My Story:
I first got interested in 'TV on the computer' shortly after getting married in 2003. When we moved into a new condo, we went through a sort of minimalist phase where we tried to purge as much unnecessary stuff from our lives as possible. This went so far that I came home one day to find that my wife had sold the bed and all the furniture in the bedroom and we slept on mats on the floor for most of the next year. Odd as it sounds, this was great for my minimalist sensibilities.

Anyway, before long the giant 36" console CRT TV in the living room came into the crosshairs. We didn't want to give up TV, but wanted a smaller setup. At about that point, a friend with real computing cred told me about TV Tuner cards. He had turned an old PC into a TV and DVR. Awesome!

So that gets me to my very first experiment with HDTV. I bought an ATI All-In-Wonder VE, popped it into an old HP desktop, and presto, I had an HTPC. Over the next few months I added a larger HDD (100Gb, wow!) and a wireless Logitech mouse with buttons programmed to change channels, volume, etc. As long as I was within 2m of the computer it was almost like a remote control. Plus I was able to rip all of my CDs to MP3 and move them out of the living room, eventually dong the same with DVDs. Great for the minimalist!

That's the computer in the picture below, my very first HTPC:
HP desktop:
Pentium II 600MHz
256 Mb RAM
100 Gb HDD
15" CRT
AIW with 64Mb onboard video RAM.

Up next, Just how big do VGA monitors get? and Discovering MediaPortal.

 

[Paranoid Delusion]

Awhh, the dog's the favorite bit of this story so far, but carry on

Whats he\she called.

 

[dcwp]

Thank you. That handsome devil is Charlie, protector of digital media.

As soon as I dig out a photo of HTPC mark II I'll go on with the next installment.

 

[FantaXP7]

nice Cambridge Sound Works speaker there

 

[dcwp]

Thanks Fanta, I'm impressed that you recognize the sound system. It was actually part of the HP system before we decided to dedicate it to HTPC. It's always nice to start with some good pieces!

Which brings me to my first efforts to build a dedicated HTPC from ground up...

Right after moving into a new home, we happened onto a free 32" CRT monitor. It sounded like a good deal at the time, but it was so huge in all dimensions that we could not get it into our Ford Focus through any door at any angle. Had to come back with the truck to haul a monitor! The monitor was an improvement on our 15" CRT, but at that size, you really see how poor resolution on a VGA monitor can be.

That's the monitor in my avatar (being watched by Sadie, the other mediahound). It's also the monitor in the first picture below. Not a great photo, but I couldn't find a better one.

The monitor itself wasn't great, but the guy who gave it to me had been an HTPC dabbler in the 1990s. It was actually a Gateway monitor from a dedicated HTPC system they tried to market at some point. I had never heard the term HTPC and didn't realize there was an actual community and market. So he set me into the internet looking for more info and help.

As I started reading through other HTPC forums, I was still just launching the ATI TV software with my wireless mouse and looking for a better way, having never seen MCE, MediaPortal, or any other front end software. At some point, it finally occurred to me that there should be an integrated program that puts all your media in one easily navigable menu that can be read from the couch. Seemed like a stroke of genius at the time. I even went so far as to post a message in another forum, arguing that someone needed to write a program like this. Yeah... after much laughing and pointing, someone on the forum kindly pointed me to a list of front end software.

WOW, that was a revolution for me. I tried Meedio, GBPVR, BeyondTV, and a couple of others before I finally found MediaPortal some time in late 2006. I can honestly say that discovering MediaPortal was the most important step in my HTPC dabbling.

Fortunately, my wife is not only a compulsive minimalist, she is also very excited about using an HTPC. When I showed her MediaPortal, she was completely on board with building a dedicated MediaCenter for it.

I should point out here that we were both graduate students in anthropology, so between us we had very little experience with computers and less money. Thus I had to design and build my first self-built computer for under $300. What I came up with was whatever TigerDirect had a good deal on and would still power MediaPortal.

Specifically I picked up a barebones bundle based on an Intel Socket 478 board in an Ultra Microfly case (looks a little nicer than a midtower) and I got a processor for around $20. Then threw in a cheap vid card and PVR 500 MCE, which never worked right. That stupid capture card had to be RMAd three times costing me more in postage than the card itself and I ended up with a PVR 150MCE with a tuner that made the low channels snowy. Grrr, I swore I was done with Hauppage, but that didn't last.

Anyway, that was my first mission-built HTPC, and the base of what I am using right now:

HTPC Mark II:
Intel Celeron D, 3.2GHz
1 Gb PC3200 RAM
NVidia GeForce FX 5200
Hauppage PVR 150MCE
Ca. 300 Gb HDD
MCE Remote

A few months later we bought a decent display, again focusing on absolute cheapness as the top priority. It's an Olevia 37" LCD display capable of 720p. Because it has no integrated tuner and it was on sale, I got it for a great price.

This system is shown in the second image below. We were remodelling the living room at the time, hence the odd pieces of wood laying around, but you'll also notice that I am not a particularly neat person . Something I'm struggling to change as I refine my htpc.

 

[dcwp]

On with the story...

After setting up our first purpose-built HTPC, we made some additions. Mostly increasing storage, adding a second Gb of RAM, moving to a Tuner that gets QAM as well as all available analog channels (hated that PVR-150 ), and adding various peripherals, software, etc. So the final build of this computer as of this Wednesday is pictured below in all of its dusty, cluttered glory:

Intel D865GVHZL
Celeron D 3.2 GHz
2X1Gb 300MHz RAM
~1.25 Tb HDD
GeForce FX 5200
HVR-1600
PVR-150MCE
Olevia 37" LCD (720p)

Pointing Devices:
MCE Remote
Logitech Wireless KB/Mouse combo for Playstation 3
Rumblepad II with joy2mouse (wireless mouse replacement)

Key Software:
XP Pro SP3
MP 1.0.0
TVE3
Orb
RealVNC
Boxee Alpha


This system has worked fine for the past couple of years, but it's recently started reaching its limits. Specifically, the PCI gfx card is too slow to process HDTV, which we now get with the addition of the HVR-1600 this winter. Also, Boxee is a fun addition (integrated into MP through Multi-shortcut), but too many of the streaming video sources were HD and just too much for this computer's graphics capabilities. It also runs a bit warm and noisy.

Only PCI slots on that Intel MoBo meant upgrading to streaming HD capabilities would be questionable and pushing the absolute limits. So I'm upgrading to a new mother board with integrated HD graphics (passively cooled as a plus) and a better processor (lower clock speed than my Celeron, but bigger FSB and dual core).

The new hardware (shown below):
Mother board: Asus P5N7A-VM - Integrated GeForce 9300
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz E4500

As I was putting it together, I decided I should have some faster RAM too, so I added:
2X1Gb Crucial 800MHz RAM

New toys shown below. I'll add details of the build later this weekend, I'm still working out some kinks.

 

[dcwp]

Alright, all systems are go!

I have this new board up and running. I had some trouble with the BIOS remembering boot disk priority, which I have seen noted by others using it. That almost made me pull my hair out, but in the end it seems to be resolved. Otherwise, the installation was quite simple. Bootup is not as fast as I would hope, but I haven't tweaked startup or BIOS yet and the board came with some bloatware that I will try to reduce this weekend.

So far I have only installed OS, drivers, MP, Boxee, and the Satsuki decoder pack. I haven't messed with video settings or any other tweaks for video, but already my video performance is far superior to anything I was able to get on the old system. Streaming HD and HDTV work without a hitch and seem to use very low resources. So yay for that.

This weekend I'm on to the next stage:
1) finish installing plugins and tweaks
2) cable maintenance and appearance

In the interests of number 2, I'm going to try and reduce the number of USB devices hanging off the HTPC.
1) remove external HDD. I'll lose some storage, but I don't really need the extra 250 Gb. In the long run I want to go distributed storage anyway.
2) I'm going to get rid of my Rumblepad. It's a cool device and makes an excellent pointer, but I've got a wireless kb with touchpad and I don't play any games. So it's just extra stuff.

After that I'll be trying to reduce noise. The system is already much quieter having removed the prior graphic card with onboard fan. However, I'd like to reduce the fan noise further. This weekend I'll install speedfan to see if I can turn the front fan off entirely and possibly slow the other two fans. I don't want to replace any fans yet though since I'm planning to find a different case in the long run and I don't know what kinds of fans I'll be looking for then.

Actually, as an afterthought, I am thinking of trying to put the rf receiver for my kb/mouse combo inside the case. Can anybody tell me if that is possible? What I'm thinking of is using something like this Welcome to AlrightDeals on one of the open headers and putting the existing rf receiver, which looks like a small USB thumb drive, on the end of it tucked away somewhere internally. Has anybody tried this? Will the components and case interfere too much with the rf signal?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Biquel]

Besides a person that is able to convince his wife to agree with important things in life you are a very good story teller. Thank's for your story.

I think that putting the RF receiver inside the case would not interfere too much with the components (because it is just a receiver, it doesn't transmit). But because your case looks like it is made from aluminium it might be that the signal will be very weak outside the case (cage of Farady). I don't know if the front of the case has lots of plastic, if so, then it will work without a problem.

 

[dcwp]

Thanks for the kind words and the input Biquel.

I haven't gotten hold of the USB adapter yet, but I did a little bit of experimentation by setting my receivers behind the aluminum case panels and trying to send signals. It looks like the RF receiver will work fine. As a great surprise, I may be able to put the IR receiver for the remote in the case as well. Since I have the case sitting sideways on the shelf, the receiver can sit behind the side vent holes. With a panel in front of the receiver I was able to use the remote from anywhere in the room with no apparent reduction in effectiveness. This is great news, now I've just got to get a USB adapter.

Otherwise I was not able to get as much done this weekend as I planned. This was the first nice Saturday I've seen in five months so I took advantage of the opportunity to get my motorcycle back into riding condition.

I did take a little time to work on the internal cable management. This is one of the hardest parts of the process for me since I am not an organized person by nature. I think I made a good deal of progress, but the power supply cables are still kind of a mess. I'm starting to appreciate the value of a modular PSU. Before and after pictures below.

I also started trying to get this rig quiet and cool. I downloaded Speedfan and started experimenting with fan speeds and noise. I am unable to completely stop any fans except the exhaust fan, but even turning the exhaust down to 50% drastically reduces the noise.

This motherboard has a reputation for running hot, and indeed the northbridge was maintaining temps around 50 degrees at idle and pushing higher under load. And that was with all fans running full speed, way too noisy. The problem, I think, is an inadequate heat sink on a very powerful chipset. It's a very pretty copper heatsink, it's even got what appears to be a heatpipe. But the 'heatpipe' is a continuous ellipse, so I'm not sure how it is supposed to work. Reports from other users suggest the thermal compound used by Asus may also be subpar.

So it's a mediocre heatsink with no fan, the only way to keep it cool is to share the air from the CPU fan. That means running the CPU fan at full speed all the time, forget passive cooling.

My solution was to use a quiet Silverstone fan from my old build, attach it to the fan header I was using for the intake fan, and position it to blow on the NB cooler. There was no easy way to set the fan in the case to blow across the heatsink, so what I finally came up with was suspending it and allowing it to blow down onto the hot components. So I rigged up a little zip-tie suspension harness and hung the fan a centimeter or two above the heatsink. I'm sure there are much better ways to handle this, but it works pretty well for now. With that fan running, idle temps are down better than 10 degrees. The exhaust fan is off most of the time and the CPU fan runs at around 50% except under serious load. I don't have any way to measure it, but I'd say the noise level of my computer is about half what it was yesterday.

The last picture below shows my fan suspension rig.

 

[dcwp]

I managed to get a day at home this weekend even though I'm supposed to be away until next weekend. So of course I took that time to work on my htpc build.

Right now I'm concentrating on heat and noise. Since I've been getting very high temps from the chipset, I removed the stock cooler. There was a tiny dab of thermal compound on one corner of the chipset, no wonder it was getting hot. So I removed it (very sticky, took a long time), cleaned with alcohol, applied silver-based compound, and reset the stock cooler. That seems to have gotten me somewhere between 5 and 10 degrees already. I'd like to have slightly cooler temps, but this is a start and much cheaper/easier than getting an aftermarket heatsink. With the structural elements inside my case I don't actually know if I could put a large heatsink inside. That's frustrating since it's a very tall case, but que sera sera.

Anyway, I was able to fiddle with SpeedFan and change the target temp for the GPU to 45 degrees. With that setting, all fans stay around 50% under load and two drop to 0 at idle. That has made a very nice difference in noise already.

Now the bulk of the noise seems to be coming from the HDDs. They are quite loud and one is running hot as well, staying around 41-42 degrees all the time. I'm running three 3.5" HDDs for a total of about 1.25Tb right now and I want to reduce the number of disks to save noise and heat. So now I have to figure out the best strategy.

I had been planning to eventually go to an NAS setup with all my HDDS in a separate case in the attic and just a 64Gb Solid State Drive in the main box. That would definitely be cool and quiet, but would also be a hassle. I have never built an NAS and don't really have time to build and maintain a separate box. I do have the hardware though and was planning to use the leftover parts that I replaced with this build.

Now I am thinking that for about the same cost I could buy a large WD Green Disk. They are supposed to run very quiet and cool plus I would eliminate two disks entirely and hopefully get very quiet operation. If I go this route, I'll sell the components from the old build and most of the old drives to pay for a 1.5Tb green disk. I'd love a 2Tb disk, but they are still way out of my price range compared to 1 and 1.5.

I think this is the best option since I have begun to focus on streaming media more than onboard and I don't see myself buying a lot more DVDs or CDs since my budget has gotten tighter. I'm still not 100% convinced since I do have another Tb or so of archived disks that I could put on the system and for the last few years my driving purpose has been to grow storage. This all goes back to the minimalist inspiration for this machine since it let me box up all my external media and move it out of the living room.

I'm curious what experiences people have had with the WD Green Disks. Are they really noticeably quieter than standard? If I ran two Green Drives, would it still be relatively quiet or would they make roughly the same noise as a single large standard drive?

Thanks for any input!

dcwp