DVB-S2 multi-satellite setup help wanted (in Luxembourg) (1 Viewer)

[BrotMonster]

Hi,

I'm a long time user of MediaPortal but have just moved to a new apartment with satellite and I've had some issue setting it up that I was hoping someone could help me with.

I'm living in Luxembourg and the apartment has just had 3 Satellites installed, they have been configured for Astra 1, Hotbird and Astra 2. These have been setup with a multi-switch (http://shop.hauser.lu/multiswitch-commutateurs/113-switch-2-sat-ter-vers-16-sorties.html) and I get them all through a single cable.

I have a 10 year old set-top box that I have borrowed which I've been able to scan all the channels. So I bought a dual DVB-S2 tuner card (DD Cine S2 V6.5 - Twin Tuner Card DVB-S/S2) for my HTPC running MediaPortal.
The problem I'm having is that I can receive all the UK channels but not the German ones.

My knowledge of configuring satellites is non-existent. Below is the satellite configuration from the set-top box:
Universal (9750-10600)
Astra 1 - DiSEqC Port 1, transponder: 1/188 12603 H 22000
Hotbird - DiSEqC Port 2, transponder: 1/117 10719 V 27500
Astra 2 - DiSEqC Port 3, transponder: 59/100 11126 V 2200

And here is the settings I tried to input into the MediaPortal satellite setup tool:

Even when I just scan the Astra 1 satellite I still only get UK channels. I tried changing some of the advance tuning options and managed to get some German channels but not all.

Can anyone help me understand what I'm doing wrong please?
Any help gratefully received

 

[mm1352000]

Hello

It would be impossible to receive all channels from those 3 satellites using that particular multi-switch. Each satellite requires 4 inputs - one for each "band" (low band vertical polarisation, low band horizontal polarisation, high band vertical polarisation, and high band horizontal polarisation). Since the multi-switch has 8 inputs, you can only receive channels from 8 out of 12 bands. The key to receiving the available channels is to understand which bands have been connected, and which inputs they are connected to. Nobody here can tell you this. You'll have to ask the people who installed the multi-switch.

What I can say is that the multi-switch uses only two DiSEqC settings.
Level1AA (or maybe simple A) selects the first group of 4 inputs (usually satellite 1).
Level1BB (or maybe simple B, Level1AB, and/or Level1BA) selects the second group of 4 inputs (usually satellite 2).

You have said that 3 satellites are connected, so it is not as straightforward as:

• Level1AA = Astra 1
• Level1AB = Hotbird
• Level1BA = Astra 2

It could be more like:

• Level1AA = Astra 1
• Level1AB = half of Hotbird, half of Astra 2

...or...

• Level1AA = 3 quarters of Astra 1, 1 quarter of Hotbird
  
• Level1AB = 3 quarters of Astra 2, 1 quarter of Hotbird,

etc.

I tried changing some of the advance tuning options...

It is a very bad idea to use those settings if you don't know what you are doing. They're called "advanced" for a reason.
You said:

My knowledge of configuring satellites is non-existent.

...so my advice is leave those settings disabled.

Please ask your apartment manager or the satellite installer which inputs were connected and how they did it.

Regards,
mm

 

[BrotMonster]

Firstly thanks for you helpful reply.

I will email the installers, hopefully they can explain how they configured the system.

Do you know if it's possible to do a full scan of a broad range of frequencies (I understand this could take hours)?

I think my original post regarding the multi-switch was not as complete as it could have been, sorry. I got the multi-switch type off the invoice. The building consists of 48 apartments and the installers used 3 x 16 port multi-switch and 2 x 8 port multi-switch. I assume from this setup it is possible to connect 3 satellites. This is confirmed as my set-top box is able to receive the channels but not the tuner card in MediaPortal.

As the set-top box can get the German channels (including VOX), would I be correct in thinking as a test I could search 1 satellite with all the different DiSEqC settings and it should be able to find these channels?

I did these tests:

but I could not get it to find VOX:

This would indicate to me that I need to set some advanced options in order to receive these channels.

Thanks again for your time and help

 

[mm1352000]

Do you know if it's possible to do a full scan of a broad range of frequencies (I understand this could take hours)?

Frequency is not the only information needed to tune a channel, so even if you could scan "a broad range of frequencies" it wouldn't help you.

I think my original post regarding the multi-switch was not as complete as it could have been, sorry. I got the multi-switch type off the invoice. The building consists of 48 apartments and the installers used 3 x 16 port multi-switch and 2 x 8 port multi-switch. I assume from this setup it is possible to connect 3 satellites.

I would not make any assumptions like that. You've quoted the number of outputs on the multi-switches, but this tells me almost nothing. As I said in my previous post: we need to know about the input connections/configuration.

This is confirmed as my set-top box is able to receive the channels but not the tuner card in MediaPortal.

I respectfully disagree. The fact that the STB can receive a given channel (eg. VOX) does not tell us that all channels from all 3 satellites are available.
MediaPortal can receive any channel that the STB can receive. It is just a matter of using the correct configuration.

As the set-top box can get the German channels (including VOX), would I be correct in thinking as a test I could search 1 satellite with all the different DiSEqC settings and it should be able to find these channels?

Not necessarily. I'll say it again: everything depends on how the inputs of the multi-switches have been connected.

 

[BrotMonster]

Frequency is not the only information needed to tune a channel, so even if you could scan "a broad range of frequencies" it wouldn't help you.


I would not make any assumptions like that. You've quoted the number of outputs on the multi-switches, but this tells me almost nothing. As I said in my previous post: we need to know about the input connections/configuration.


I respectfully disagree. The fact that the STB can receive a given channel (eg. VOX) does not tell us that all channels from all 3 satellites are available.
MediaPortal can receive any channel that the STB can receive. It is just a matter of using the correct configuration.


Not necessarily. I'll say it again: everything depends on how the inputs of the multi-switches have been connected.

Sorry to continue with this investigation, I know I need to contact the installation company but this will take some time.

To clarify, for my test, all I want to do is get the same channels on the tuner card that I can already get on the set top box.
I used the example of the channel VOX. This is available on the set-top box using the setup parameters [Astra 1 - DiSEqC Port 1] - no other user configurable parameter was required.

What I don't understand is why I cannot find this same channel after searching with all possible combinations of DiSEqC.

 

[mm1352000]

Sorry to continue with this investigation, I know I need to contact the installation company but this will take some time.

I would like to help you... but for now there's nothing more that I can say. I simply don't have the necessary information to assist you. You may just have to be patient.
The missing information is:

1. Multi-switch input configuration.
2. LNB types used.
   
3. TV Server log files.

To clarify, for my test, all I want to do is get the same channels on the tuner card that I can already get on the set top box.

Yes, I understand that.

I used the example of the channel VOX. This is available on the set-top box using the setup parameters [Astra 1 - DiSEqC Port 1] - no other user configurable parameter was required.

That may be the only user configurable parameter that you have seen, but I'm 100% certain that it is not possible to scan/setup successfully without at least two other critical parameters:

1. LNB type (or equivalent local oscillator frequencies).
2. 22 kHz tone state.

Without that information you could waste a lot of time and still not find the channels you're looking for.

What I don't understand is why I cannot find this same channel after searching with all possible combinations of DiSEqC.

As above: unfortunately I can't help you until more information is supplied. If you can supply the TV Server log files then I could at least check that TV Server is actually scanning the transponder which carries VOX. Until then, my hands are tied.

P.S. Note that we expect people to include log files when they start a thread. It is very difficult to help without them.

 

[BrotMonster]

Thanks again for your help and patience.
I have attached the TV-Server1.log file after I performed the first scan [first image, post 3].
I have attached the TV-Server2.log file after I performed the second scan [second image, post 3].

I would like to help you... but for now there's nothing more that I can say. I simply don't have the necessary information to assist you. You may just have to be patient.
The missing information is:
Multi-switch input configuration.
LNB types used.
TV Server log files.

Thanks for the questions, these will be helpful when contacting the installation company.
I searched the invoice from the installation and these look like the lnb used is a Lnb quattro (shop.hauser.lu/lnb-tetes/126-lnb-quattro-black-prenium.html.

I will get this confirmed along with the input configuration.

Thanks again, Dan.

 

[mm1352000]

Thanks Dan

I can tell only one thing from these log files: you are only finding channels from Astra 28.2E low band horizontal polarisation ("UK channels"). It doesn't seem to matter which DiSEqC settings you use; still only those channels are found. To be clear: that is only 1 band out of 12.

I wonder... how have you connected the PC satellite tuner? Have you connected it to the "loop out" connector on the STB? If so, that would explain a lot of things.

P.S.

1. Make sure you have clicked "update satellite list" so you have the latest tuning details.
2. Make sure you fully turn off the STB and PC (shutdown, pull the power plug, and wait for 30 seconds) before changing the satellite cables. You risk damage to the tuners or STB if you don't do that.

 

[BrotMonster]

Ok, I didn't mention this before because I didn't think it was important.
I have 1 satellite cable wall socket and as I have a dual tuner I needed to split the signal.
What I did was get a 4 port SAT Splitter.
www.digital-devices.eu/shop/en/accessoires/accessories-dvb-ss2/183/sat-splitter-4x-with-dc-passthrough-class-a-unicable-accessoires

I have the wall socket plugged directly into the input of the splitter. From here I have three of the outputs connected, one to the set-top bx and two to the tuner card.
So when I read your last message, I tried another test; I scanned just the Astra 1 satellite while the set-top box was also watching an Astra 1 satellite. This worked!

How can the set-top box affect the output of the other connections coming out of the splitter?
Did I get the wrong splitter?

I will be removing the set-top box (I borrowed it just for testing) when I have MediaPortal working so maybe this is the solution? My main concern is that if one tuner (on the dual tuner card) is using one satellite does this mean the other tuner cannot use a different satellite?

Thanks again. I owe you a beer!

 

[mm1352000]

Ahhh, it all starts to make sense...

This subject could take several hours to explain in full detail. The short version is that the cable from the multiswitch to your wall socket has limited capacity. It can only supply one "band" at a time. When I say band, I mean a combination of DiSEqC setting (satellite), 22 kHz tone setting (low or high band) and polarisation. Tuners and STBs send signals (voltage etc.) to the multiswitch (or LNB - it would be the same) in order to select the band (for you: one out of the twelve available, because you have three satellites) that carries the channel that you want to receive. The splitter that you added allows four tuners or STBs to share access to the same one band. If two of the tuners want channels from different bands... well, only one tuner will receive the desired channel.

In other words, if you have 2 tuners then ideally you should have 2 connections on the wall socket to the apartment block multiswitch. Having said that, maybe most of the channels that you want to receive are carried in one band... in which case you have no problem. If you wanted to receive UK channels and German channels at the same time... well, that would require 2 connections to the apartment block multiswitch.

How can the set-top box affect the output of the other connections coming out of the splitter?

Satellite splitter outputs are not independent like cable (DVB-C) or terrestrial (DVB-T/T2) splitter outputs. As I mentioned above: each tuner or STB has to send signals to the multiswitch to select the band that includes the channel that you want to see. With your one connection to the apartment multiswitch, you are limited to one band. If any STB or tuner in your apartment selects [for example] "band 1" (eg. UK channels) then all STBs and tuners will only receive that band. Again and in other words: if your STB selects the band which carries UK channels, the PC tuners will also only receive those channels. If one of your PC tuners selects a band which carries some German channels, the STB and the other PC tuner will also only receive those channels. The STBs and tuners can "fight for control"... but still you are limited to one band.

Did I get the wrong splitter?

If you want to have 2 tuners then what you really need is a second connection from the multiswitch to your apartment. The splitter is not totally useless, because it allows you to share the connection that you have amongst the tuners and STBs in your apartment... but even with 1 million outputs it could never remove the one band limitation.

I will be removing the set-top box (I borrowed it just for testing) when I have MediaPortal working so maybe this is the solution?

It depends on which channels you want to receive. If you want to receive channels from all 3 satellites with both tuners at any time then removing the STB will make absolutely no difference.

My main concern is that if one tuner (on the dual tuner card) is using one satellite does this mean the other tuner cannot use a different satellite?

Correct. Yes.
...and to be clear, it is not just different satellites. It is different bands also. For example, even if the tuners are using the same satellite, they might want to access channels from transponders with different polarisation (vertical or horizontal). That would not be possible either.

Thanks again. I owe you a beer!

No problem.
In lieu of a beer, I'd be happy if you would consider a small donation to the team. The money goes towards our operational costs (servers, hosting etc.).
https://www.team-mediaportal.com/support/donate-give-funds-or-gifts

There's no pressure. I'm here to help whether people donate or not.

Best regards,
mm