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<blockquote data-quote="kiwijunglist" data-source="post: 1001634" data-attributes="member: 76888"><p><span style="font-size: 22px">Black levels, White levels, clipping, 0-255 vs 16-235</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Introduction</span></p><p>[spoiler]Computers and computer monitors use 255 shades of black/grey/white (0-255)</p><p>Blurays, DVDs, Video cameras, TV Broadcasters and TVs use 219 shades of black/grey/white (16-235)</p><p>Photos and Digital Cameras use 0-255</p><p></p><p>Video cards can be set to only output 16-235, but often they still use 0-255 internally prior to output, and they either cut off 16 shades of grey at each end, or they re-compress the signal.</p><p></p><p>There is no hard and fast rule as to what color space you use as each has advantages/disadvantages depending on your unique combination of TV and video card. Different combinations handle everything different making it impossible to recommend a combination without running a lot of tests and writing 20 a page guide just for this section... However...</p><p></p><p><strong>The most important thing with an HTPC is</strong></p><p>1. Black video looks black</p><p>2. White video looks white</p><p>3. You can tell the difference between black level 17-black level 20, ie you have good detail in dark scenes.</p><p>4. Contrast is enough, but not too high that you get tierd eyes while watching a movie</p><p></p><p>These are the options available to you</p><p>PC: Pixel Format 4:4:4 vs Full RGB vs Limited RGB (Don't bother with 4:2:2)</p><p>PC: Colour range 0-255 vs (16-235 if supported)</p><p>LAV Codec: 16-235 vs 0-255 output</p><p>TV: 16-235 mode (vs 0-255 if supported by TV)</p><p></p><p>My current setup is</p><p>AMD: Full RGB 4:4:4 pixel format with Full colour range (0-255) and 32bit colour / LAV: 0-255 (RGB32bit only) / TV: 0-255 (with Samsung HDMI Black Level = Normal)</p><p>This gives me full range of black:white with desktop,pictures & video as well as black=black in both photos and the expanded video. Since video colour space is expanded I get slight compression artifacts in greyscale ramp test videos, however what ever combination I use I still can see compression artifacts (I suspect video card internally uses 0-255 regardless of settings), so I use a combination that gives me good colour space in both desktop, photos and videos.</p><p></p><p><strong>What we will attempt to do is make sure that black is as black as possible, white is as white as possible, while still maintaining excellent contrast in black/dark scenes.</strong></p><p></p><p>NB: I have made a desktopclipping.gif test pattern, you can use it for advanced colour space management when investigating how your tv and video card handles different colour spaces. If you don't understand how to use it then just ignore this file. This file might be useful if you want to prevent clipping in both photos and videos. It is still important that you set the brightness level using the mp4 file within MediaPortal. Don't use desktopclipping.gif to adjust your final brightness level as you will might make movies lose contrast and you may spoil your video black level[/spoiler]1. Set everything to LAV in mediaportal</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]130342[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Download Basic Video Calibration.zip</span></p><p></p><p>Download <a href="https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/attachments/basic-calibration-zip.130344/" target="_blank">Basic Calibration.zip</a> and extract to your MediaPortal videos folder.</p><p>It is important that we view these files in MP not your external video player.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Turn off all extra enhancements on the TV</span></p><p></p><p>Make note of your current TV settings just in case</p><p>Reset your tv to the default picture settings. (Reset contrast, brightness, colour etc)</p><p>Set picture mode to normal/standard mode (If you don't have this then use 'movie' mode)</p><p>Set colour mode to standard/normal/default.</p><p>Now turn off all the fancy modes that it does, we don't want them</p><p>This means no dynamic contrast, edge enhancement, noise reduction, smoothing, auto colour, auto contrast, auto black levels, picture enhancement, DNIe, interpolation, Pull:down detection, etc...</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Turn off all extra enhancements on the Video card</span></p><p></p><p>AMD:</p><p>[ATTACH]130343[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Nvidia:</p><p>** someone send me a picture **</p><p></p><p>Intel:</p><p>[ATTACH]130439[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Adjust the black clipping level</span></p><p></p><p>Play 1-Black Clipping.mp4</p><p>There is flashing in all bars, however you only want to see flashing in 17 and above.</p><p>Turn brightness on your tv down to 0%</p><p>As you turn up the brightness you will see 25 flashing, then 24, then 23,22...</p><p>Keep going higher until you can just faintly see that #17 is flashing</p><p></p><p>What about 0-16 flashing? Well all proper video rips and iso rips have no colour information from 0-16 and above 235. If you turn up the brightness higher you will not see any extra detail in movies, and the black will become greyish, you also might loose details at the white end, because brightness is too high.</p><p></p><p>Play 2-APL Clipping.mp4</p><p>Ensure that you can see #17 is flashing, if not you may need a couple of extra steps of brightness</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]130888[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Adjust the white clipping level</span></p><p></p><p>Some tv's have "white level" some tv's have "contrast". White clipping is less important as there are hardly any video scenes that have detail in white, whereas it's quite common to have an almost black scene with action happening.</p><p></p><p>Play 3-White Clipping.mp4</p><p>Make note of the default/current contrast/white level.</p><p>Ideally you should see flashing in bars 234/235 and below</p><p>Now adjust from 0%-100% see if this has any effect on the flashing white bars.</p><p>at 100% you should see no flash bars, at 0% you should see flashing from 230-234</p><p>You want white level / contrast as high as possible while still being able to see 234 is flashing.</p><p></p><p>If adjust contrasting does not change the flashing then set contrast back to the original level. You can't adjust contrast on this machine using test patterns, you have to base it on what looks good to you. If contrast is too dark you wont see any details, if contrast is too high then you will get artifacts and sore eyes.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Downloads:</span></p><p>Basic Calibration.zip - contains the mp4 videos you need to calibrate your display</p><p>Desktopclipping.gif / Desktopgreylevels - only for desktop colour clipping, do not use this to calibrate your video black levels!!!</p><p><strong>It is important that you download basic calibration.zip and use that to calibrate rather than the .gif images.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kiwijunglist, post: 1001634, member: 76888"] [SIZE=6]Black levels, White levels, clipping, 0-255 vs 16-235[/SIZE] [SIZE=4]Introduction[/SIZE] [spoiler]Computers and computer monitors use 255 shades of black/grey/white (0-255) Blurays, DVDs, Video cameras, TV Broadcasters and TVs use 219 shades of black/grey/white (16-235) Photos and Digital Cameras use 0-255 Video cards can be set to only output 16-235, but often they still use 0-255 internally prior to output, and they either cut off 16 shades of grey at each end, or they re-compress the signal. There is no hard and fast rule as to what color space you use as each has advantages/disadvantages depending on your unique combination of TV and video card. Different combinations handle everything different making it impossible to recommend a combination without running a lot of tests and writing 20 a page guide just for this section... However... [B]The most important thing with an HTPC is[/B] 1. Black video looks black 2. White video looks white 3. You can tell the difference between black level 17-black level 20, ie you have good detail in dark scenes. 4. Contrast is enough, but not too high that you get tierd eyes while watching a movie These are the options available to you PC: Pixel Format 4:4:4 vs Full RGB vs Limited RGB (Don't bother with 4:2:2) PC: Colour range 0-255 vs (16-235 if supported) LAV Codec: 16-235 vs 0-255 output TV: 16-235 mode (vs 0-255 if supported by TV) My current setup is AMD: Full RGB 4:4:4 pixel format with Full colour range (0-255) and 32bit colour / LAV: 0-255 (RGB32bit only) / TV: 0-255 (with Samsung HDMI Black Level = Normal) This gives me full range of black:white with desktop,pictures & video as well as black=black in both photos and the expanded video. Since video colour space is expanded I get slight compression artifacts in greyscale ramp test videos, however what ever combination I use I still can see compression artifacts (I suspect video card internally uses 0-255 regardless of settings), so I use a combination that gives me good colour space in both desktop, photos and videos. [B]What we will attempt to do is make sure that black is as black as possible, white is as white as possible, while still maintaining excellent contrast in black/dark scenes.[/B] NB: I have made a desktopclipping.gif test pattern, you can use it for advanced colour space management when investigating how your tv and video card handles different colour spaces. If you don't understand how to use it then just ignore this file. This file might be useful if you want to prevent clipping in both photos and videos. It is still important that you set the brightness level using the mp4 file within MediaPortal. Don't use desktopclipping.gif to adjust your final brightness level as you will might make movies lose contrast and you may spoil your video black level[/spoiler]1. Set everything to LAV in mediaportal [ATTACH=full]130342[/ATTACH] [SIZE=4]Download Basic Video Calibration.zip[/SIZE] Download [URL='https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/attachments/basic-calibration-zip.130344/']Basic Calibration.zip[/URL] and extract to your MediaPortal videos folder. It is important that we view these files in MP not your external video player. [SIZE=4]Turn off all extra enhancements on the TV[/SIZE] Make note of your current TV settings just in case Reset your tv to the default picture settings. (Reset contrast, brightness, colour etc) Set picture mode to normal/standard mode (If you don't have this then use 'movie' mode) Set colour mode to standard/normal/default. Now turn off all the fancy modes that it does, we don't want them This means no dynamic contrast, edge enhancement, noise reduction, smoothing, auto colour, auto contrast, auto black levels, picture enhancement, DNIe, interpolation, Pull:down detection, etc... [SIZE=4]Turn off all extra enhancements on the Video card[/SIZE] AMD: [ATTACH]130343[/ATTACH] Nvidia: ** someone send me a picture ** Intel: [ATTACH]130439[/ATTACH] [SIZE=4]Adjust the black clipping level[/SIZE] Play 1-Black Clipping.mp4 There is flashing in all bars, however you only want to see flashing in 17 and above. Turn brightness on your tv down to 0% As you turn up the brightness you will see 25 flashing, then 24, then 23,22... Keep going higher until you can just faintly see that #17 is flashing What about 0-16 flashing? Well all proper video rips and iso rips have no colour information from 0-16 and above 235. If you turn up the brightness higher you will not see any extra detail in movies, and the black will become greyish, you also might loose details at the white end, because brightness is too high. Play 2-APL Clipping.mp4 Ensure that you can see #17 is flashing, if not you may need a couple of extra steps of brightness [ATTACH=full]130888[/ATTACH] [SIZE=4]Adjust the white clipping level[/SIZE] Some tv's have "white level" some tv's have "contrast". White clipping is less important as there are hardly any video scenes that have detail in white, whereas it's quite common to have an almost black scene with action happening. Play 3-White Clipping.mp4 Make note of the default/current contrast/white level. Ideally you should see flashing in bars 234/235 and below Now adjust from 0%-100% see if this has any effect on the flashing white bars. at 100% you should see no flash bars, at 0% you should see flashing from 230-234 You want white level / contrast as high as possible while still being able to see 234 is flashing. If adjust contrasting does not change the flashing then set contrast back to the original level. You can't adjust contrast on this machine using test patterns, you have to base it on what looks good to you. If contrast is too dark you wont see any details, if contrast is too high then you will get artifacts and sore eyes. [SIZE=4]Downloads:[/SIZE] Basic Calibration.zip - contains the mp4 videos you need to calibrate your display Desktopclipping.gif / Desktopgreylevels - only for desktop colour clipping, do not use this to calibrate your video black levels!!! [B]It is important that you download basic calibration.zip and use that to calibrate rather than the .gif images.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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