Jitters only when whole picture moves, dynamic refresh changer is on (1 Viewer)

[Crackofdawn]

MediaPortal Version: 1.2.1
MediaPortal Skin: StreamedMP
Windows Version: 7 x32
CPU Type: Athlon II X2 (2.9ghz)
HDD: WD Caviar Green
Memory: 3GB DDR2-800
Motherboard:
Video Card: ATI 5450HD
Video Card Driver: 11.9
Sound Card: ATI 5450HD
Sound Card AC3:
Sound Card Driver:
1. TV Card:
1. TV Card Type:
1. TV Card Driver:
2. TV Card:
2. TV Card Type:
2. TV Card Driver:
3. TV Card:
3. TV Card Type:
3. TV Card Driver:
4. TV Card:
4. TV Card Type:
4. TV Card Driver:
MPEG2 Video Codec: FFDShow
MPEG2 Audio Codec: FFDShow
h.264 Video Codec: MPC
Satelite/CableTV Provider:
HTPC Case:
Cooling:
Power Supply:
Remote:
TV: Mitsu 65" DLP
TV - HTPC Connection: HDMI

I am noticing an issue, not sure if it was there all along or just got worse after an MP update or something. I have jitters which look like refresh rate jitters but they're only noticeable when the entire screen is panning. When it's a still shot with things moving on the screen (people, cars, whatever) everything looks fine, but when the whole screen pans it's a very noticeable jitter (best example was last night watching red riding hood, lots of wide panning shots of the landscape). The jitter is like a quick 'stop' every 1/2 second or so. It doesn't look like the video is actually hanging, just slowing down for a split second then speeding back up again. I've always noticed this to some extent on wide landscape shots but it definitely seems worse now.

Dynamic Refresh Rate is on and I can see it changing the refresh rate when movies start. I notice this on any movie with panning shots, not just red riding hood. Is there something else I can change that will alleviate this somewhat? Maybe something in my catalyst control center?

 

[mm1352000]

Hi Crackofdawn

Refresh rate issues do show up most clearly with panning shots. Are you getting frames dropped? Press shift + 1 to show renderer stats...

mm
PS: it would help if you posted logs or at least mentioned the content frame rate and TV/projector/screen refresh rate.

 

[logifuse]

You can change the various options for auto-refresh rate change. One thing to remember is that 23.976 FPS is not 24. Setting it to change to 23Hz (which is really 23.976) smooths things out. If your TV can't do 23/24Hz, 59.94Hz (called 59) is the next best option (2:3 pull up).

Also, sometimes you need the Force refresh rate change option as it might not actually be changing. mm's shift + F1 option will also tell you what refresh rate it is operating at, as well as the FPS of the content, whether or not frames are being dropped & the pattern of pull up (if that's happening).

 

[Crackofdawn]

Thanks I'll try some of that out tonight! Oddly enough I changed from the MPC Video Decoder for H.264 to Microsoft DTV DVD Decoder and it seems to have corrected a lot of the problem?? That seems odd, and I was always told MPC is the best video decoder to use.

So, my TV is a Mitsubishi WD-65C9 - it supports 24hz natively. I tried changing the dynamic refresh rate to using 23.976 when detecting a 23.976 signal and 24 only when detecting a 24 signal but it actually made the problem worse. I know the refresh rate is changing because the TV blips on and off when it happens, I just don't know what it's changing to. I'll try the shift+1 tonight. The picture/juddering is much more livable after switching to the Microsoft Decoder.

The file I'm watching is a blu ray ripped to MKV so it's definitely 24hz (or 23.976?) source. I'll try to get some more info tonight, thanks!

 

[Crackofdawn]

So I checked while playing a blu ray rip mkv file tonight with shift+1 and it still shows my display at 1920x1080 60Hz. I did a debug mode and I see this error in mediaportal.log:

RefreshRateChanger.SetRefreshRateBasedOnFPS: could not find a matching refreshrate based on 23.976 fps

But I have the default mediaportal config, I simply ticked the checkboxes for enable DRR and force DRR, so not sure why that is happening.

Edit: Interestingly it looks like there may have been a typo between the 23.976 and 24 ? Not sure. Anyway, I deleted the FPS for "CINEMA" and typed in "23.976;24" and then changed Refresh rate from 24 to 23 and now when I shift+1 the lines look smooth and it shows my display at 1920x1080 23.976Hz, 17 dropped frames at the very beginning and then none after that.

 

[logifuse]

I suggest you separate the 23.976 & 24 entries (change cinema to just 23.976 & add an entry call cinema24 & make that for 24FPS & 24Hz).

I also suggest you separate the 59 & 60 entries the same way. For 29.97 & 59.94 FPS have 59.94Hz, 30 & 60 FPS have 60Hz.

That way you've get a precise match no matter what your source is.

You're actually unlikely to have content with a full number FPS (24/60), unless you have PAL TV (50Hz), so the precise FPS/Hz matching is critical.

 

[Crackofdawn]

Cool I will do that.

So, for Cinema it would be 23.976 FPS, 23Hz
Cinema24 would be 24fps, 24hz
NTSC59 would be 29.97;59.94 fps and 59Hz
NTSC 30;60 fps, 60Hz

Is that correct? I have to use 23 for 23.976, I tried using 23.976 as the Hz but it doesn't set it right or something because the jitters got much worse, but when I used '23' it auto set to 23.976 hz and everything got better. I'm assuming the same thing will happen with the 59hz, so guessing I should set 59hz instead of 59.94hz?

 

[logifuse]

Yep, that's right. 23 is just the video drivers shorthand for 23.976 (& 59 is 59.94).

Set your default to whatever it is you use the most (probably TV, so that's normally NTSC59 I'm guessing?).

 

[Crackofdawn]

I have the default right now set to just NTSC which is 60hz. Seems to be good.

I ran into another issue last night though. The jitters seem slightly worse when using the MPC Video Decoder codec. I've been using this for ages and update it occasionally to the latest SVN. The last couple updates of it it seems like it's been jittery. I switched to the Microsoft DTV DVD decoder a couple days ago and it was working good for my blu ray rips, but when I was trying to play back some recorded TV (in mkv format) it skips a lot - if I look at the shift+1 graph, everything is straight then suddenly every 5 seconds there is a BLIP where all the lines shoot straight down, then straight up, then straight again. The actual picture and audio stops for 1/4 second during this time. Unwatchable. So I had to switch H.264 decoding back to the MPC Video Decoder which causes more jitteriness during pan shots.

Any ideas on that? Is MPC known for this? Is there a way to update/fix the MS DTV/DVD decoder?

 

[Crackofdawn]

Ok guys, for anyone curious I now have everything working well and thought I'd share my set up.

So, as per my above issue, when using Microsoft DTV DVD codec for H.264 it seemed good for movies - a lot of my jitter issues went away but I couldn't play some of my TV shows as they would skip. When watching the shift+1 graph during this I would see a spike (straight down actually) every time the jump happened.

So I tried FFDShow DXVA codec which worked fine for TV and fine for *one* of the movies I was using as a test (Red Riding Hood which had horrible jitter issues at the beginning of my problem). For both the TV shows and this movie, my graph would be rock solid/straight. However when watching newer MKVs (Captain America, Thor), the jitters were back and very bad, the graph would show the red line (not sure which each color is) shooting up and down consistently the entire movie, even though the FPS/Refresh matched up perfectly.

The only thing I could think of left to check was my MKV splitter, as I was using Gabest from the MPC Filters package due to needing TrueHD and DTS-MA support (which Haali didn't provide, at least not last year when I first switched over). So I had heard a lot of good things about LAV. I grabbed version 0.38 and installed it, set it as my default splitter for pretty much everything, and also in MP set the LAV Video Decoder as my default for H.264 (left all audio and mpeg2 as FFDShow). Now I get perfectly smooth graphs in all movies and TV I tested and the jitters are nearly completely gone.