Media server/ HTPC all in one - need some tips (1 Viewer)

[giantjoebot]

Windows Version: XP Pro or Server 2003?
CPU Type: AMD Athlon X2 3800+
HDD: over 1TB jbod
Memory: 2GB OCZ platnium
Motherboard: DFI Lanparty 939 SLI
Motherboard Chipset: nforce4
Video Card: ASUS 7200LE
Sound Card: Onboard
1. TV Card: Hauppauge WINTV-PVR-150
1. TV Card Type: Hard
MPEG2 Video Codec: Probably buy nvidia's
MPEG2 Audio Codec: NA
Satelite/CableTV Provider: Comcast
HTPC Case: Antec P180
Cooling: Zalman 9500
Power Supply: Corsair 520W
Remote: Hauppauge, but probably use unversal learning remote
TV: Sanyo 32" CRT type
TV - HTPC Connection: S-Video, or RGB

I was working on upgrading my media server and putting it in my room, its kind of a long story, but it ended up being to loud. So I put it out in the living room, and since I planned on building a HTPC using the TV server in a single seat config, and one or 2 other clients, I thought why not combine the 2. I can us the hardware from my main rig, and upgrade instead of buying new stuff for this. Well I'm looking for a little advice and input before I get started.


# Even though I'm running single seat, can I still use server 2003, and if so which would be better, Server 2003 or XP Pro?

# I watch a lot of anime, and use CCCP codec pack. some of the anime I watch uses dual audio. Can I use this codec pack, and is it easy to switch the audio?

# I will be running some other apps as a media server. This includes Orb, Filzilla FTP server, Azureus (as a server, with the new server client plugin), And proablly Jizora or Winamp with the http plugin. Is my hardware powerful enough to run all of this on one machine? (The CPU is very overclockable, and I could easly put it at 2.4gh with a ram divider if needed, but would rather run at stock for stablity, and cooling purposes)

# I have a modded Xbox with XBMC installed. I noticed the XBMC client plugin. Would it be better for me to run this as just a server, and use the Xbox as my client?

# I have another gig of RAM that I can add. I know that XP doesn't like over 2GB, but server 2003 might be able to handle it. It would force me to run in 2T. Would an extra gig, for a total of 3GB, help?

# I currently have 2 X 400GB SATA, 2 X 250GB IDE, and 1 X 160GB SATA drives. I was thinking of using the 160GB SATA for the OS, and application install, and using one or both of the IDE drives for my TV recordings. Would there be any advantage to running the 2 IDE drive in a stripe (RAID0)? They are on the same IDE channel. I don't have very much experience with MPEG2. My network is all gigabit, but I'm a little worried that there might be a problem accessing the TV recordings by 2 clients at the same time.


Well I think thats about it for my questions. I can't wait to get started on this project, and I'm looking forward to any input on this thread. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[giantjoebot]

Not one reply. Do I have this in the wrong section?

 

[and-81]

Not one reply. Do I have this in the wrong section?

OK, I'll bite.

Keep in mind that a big part of most peoples HTPC experience is just doing it and making it up as you go along. That's what I did. And after a lot of planning and a couple of hardware iterations I'm very happy with the result. My PC is over 3 years old now, it cost me over $1000 Australian dollars when I built it and has never had a hardware failure of any kind. I do run a UPS to protect it.

So basically, my main advice is, plan as much as you can, seek advice, but then just give it a try ... and be willing to reinstall windows 5 times ... That's how many times I've reinstalled windows But they were all in the early days, and I was mucking around with nLite ...

If you look at my system specs you'll see that your HTPC will be much more powerful than mine. However, I only run Standard Definition content at a Standard Definition resolution (PAL 720x576). I believe my rig would support a higher level of output, maybe 1280x720, but not at anything like 1920x1080.

Second piece of advice: Be sure of what you expect from your HTPC, and then set out with those expectations in mind. If you want HD output, or worse Blu-Ray/HD-DVD support, expect to pay for it. If you're happy with SD (and I am) then you'll do it a lot easier and cheaper.

# Even though I'm running single seat, can I still use server 2003, and if so which would be better, Server 2003 or XP Pro?

I don't have any experience with Server 2003, but XP Pro SP2 will work fine, that's what I use. Single Seat TV3 and as a Media Server for the house. I've tweaked it a little bit (but not too much) just to remove some of the features and services I don't need on my HTPC. You can find more info on this sort of thing throughout the forums.

# I watch a lot of anime, and use CCCP codec pack. some of the anime I watch uses dual audio. Can I use this codec pack, and is it easy to switch the audio?

Again, no specific experience with that codec pack, but I strongly discourage the use of codec packs. Find out exactly what you need and only install that. ffdshow is a good place to start. Install ffdshow on a clean XP install and see what you can and can't play. Then install just the additional codecs you need. What I'm describing is about avoiding "codec hell". Which is where you have too many codecs installed and it becomes very difficult to get the right codec to play the right files.

# I will be running some other apps as a media server. This includes Orb, Filzilla FTP server, Azureus (as a server, with the new server client plugin), And proablly Jizora or Winamp with the http plugin. Is my hardware powerful enough to run all of this on one machine? (The CPU is very overclockable, and I could easly put it at 2.4gh with a ram divider if needed, but would rather run at stock for stablity, and cooling purposes)

With 2gb of ram and that cpu, I believe you could run all that simultaneously.

I don't think the RAM or the CPU will be the bottleneck if you run all those things, I expect the hard disk(s) may be a bottleneck depending on how much of that you will be using simultaneously.

You should put together some scenarios and then test them.

For example:
TV Server is recording, 2 network clients are watching 2 separate recordings, the local client is watching live tv and Azureus is downloading.

What is the total network bandwidth in use?
Negligible. An SD DVB-T stream in Australia is around 8 megabits, which is the same as an SD DVD. On a 100mb network that's only 8% utilization per stream, obviously. Add the bandwidth Azureus is using (relatively little compared to your LAN bandwidth I'm sure). In this scenario your network will not be overloaded... Unless you're running some slow form of wifi?

Will the CPU keep up?
Hmm, well mine keeps up in similar scenarios, so I think yours will too. Though that will depend on whether the 7200LE is offloading on the CPU. I don't know that particular card, but it might not be up to running a MediaPortal client without stressing the CPU. Basically, when a video card doesn't support all the fancy things that the software is trying to do the driver will emulate those features in the CPU. This is why MediaPortal needs a DirectX 9 compatible video card.

Looking at the specs on that card I think you'll be fine. But don't expect it to run HD content. It might be able to do some of the almost-HD stuff, but full 1080 is beyond it. It just doesn't have the memory bandwidth to pump that number of pixels out.

Can the hard disks keep up?
Spread the load. Use separate IDE channels where possible/applicable, timeshift to one drive (not partition, not logical drive, but real actual separate hard disk) and record to another. Have the OS, applications and swap file on another. The more you can spread the common disk access loads onto physically separate hard disks the better you will be. But again, you won't know until you try, so start off simple and only complicate things where necessary.

Actually, that's a good piece of advice. "Start simple, complicate only when required."

The two gb of RAM should ease the load on the hard disks, but you won't know until you try.

I'd advise against going RAID unless you absolutely have to. Cross that bridge when you get to it. I never had to, so I don't see why you would. Keep in mind that hard disks can fail, and it can happen to you. Will a simple RAID setup make that a nightmare, probably.

Another way to ease the load on the CPU/RAM is to use a hardware encoding TV Card. Software cards load up the host CPU & RAM by making the PC do all the work, so whatever you do, use hardware encoding tv cards.

# I have a modded Xbox with XBMC installed. I noticed the XBMC client plugin. Would it be better for me to run this as just a server, and use the Xbox as my client?

I use XBMC every single day. Have done for years now. I love it. I wish it could watch live streams from TV Server, but this has yet to happen. I use it to play back 99% of my recorded shows. And I love it, did I mention that?

To answer your question, it depends on how you want to use it. Like I said above, XBMC at this stage does not play TV Server streams in real-time (unless I'm missing something ?). But if that's ok for you and you just want to watch recordings and downloaded media, play music and look at photos then XBMC is a god-send.

# I have another gig of RAM that I can add. I know that XP doesn't like over 2GB, but server 2003 might be able to handle it. It would force me to run in 2T. Would an extra gig, for a total of 3GB, help?

2GB will be fine. Mine runs 512mb dual-channel DDR 400. So yeah, 2GB will be fine

If you put in two gig and you run it and you find that the OS is sucking up all that ram and wanting more then you can always add that extra gig later. But I doubt it will make any difference.

# I currently have 2 X 400GB SATA, 2 X 250GB IDE, and 1 X 160GB SATA drives. I was thinking of using the 160GB SATA for the OS, and application install, and using one or both of the IDE drives for my TV recordings. Would there be any advantage to running the 2 IDE drive in a stripe (RAID0)? They are on the same IDE channel. I don't have very much experience with MPEG2. My network is all gigabit, but I'm a little worried that there might be a problem accessing the TV recordings by 2 clients at the same time.

As I mentioned above, network bandwidth won't be the bottleneck, especially if you're using Gigabit networking. And everything I said above about hard disks should cover this question.

MPEG2 even at what are considered high bitrates is still not going to tax your network, certainly not a gigabit LAN.

All things considered ... With your video card keeping you in SD territory I feel your HTPC will serve you very well ... Good luck.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone reading my response has any differing views on the things I've said. If you do, please, join in.

Cheers,

 

[giantjoebot]

Wow! That was an awesome reply. Thank You very much.

I was planning on spreading the load on to different drives, but didn't know that time shifting was able to be separated. I also have to consider the azureus's hard drive use. Thats going to take some consideration, what should go where.

I also use to avoid codec packs. I had heard bad things, and also had some bad experiences. After I had a hard time watching a few anime, I looked on a anime forum, and it said to use CCCP. It works great, and it uses ffdshow. It also comes with media player classic and zoom player in the install. I was just worried because the way that you have to change the audio when watching stuff on computers, normal windows interface, is by right clicking on an icon in the notification area. And since I'm going to be running this full screen, and using a remote, that would be a difficult thing to do.

That was one of the things that I was looking forward to with this. Currently there are several shows that XBMC can't handle that I would like to watch in my living room, but CCP can.

 

[and-81]

My pleasure,

Do you need to control ffdshow to change the audio stream by your remote?

 

[giantjoebot]

Yeah I do need to be able to change it with my remote. I'm planning on the remote being the only input device, and using remote desktop for anything else.

 

[and-81]

OK, Well you can control ffdshow with the MCE Replacement Plugin. If you know the commands.

When you get up and running get in touch with me and I can set something up for you to set a button on your remote to change the ffdshow audio stream.

I've been thinking of making an "ffdshow control plugin", I'll add it to my todo list.

Good luck with your HTPC, post back if you need any advice.

Cheers,

 

[giantjoebot]

Can the hard disks keep up?
Spread the load. Use separate IDE channels where possible/applicable, timeshift to one drive (not partition, not logical drive, but real actual separate hard disk) and record to another. Have the OS, applications and swap file on another. The more you can spread the common disk access loads onto physically separate hard disks the better you will be. But again, you won't know until you try, so start off simple and only complicate things where necessary.

I've been debating this over and over again. It seems like such a waist of drive space to dedicate an entire drive to timeshifting. The smallest out of the 3 that I have is 160gb. Thats 160 hours of SD, and 16hours HD, right?

EDIT: Wait a second

Even if doing HD, one drive seems like enough for recording and timeshifting with 2 clients.

HD records at 10GB/hour
there are 3600 seconds in one hour
10,000/3600=2.78MB/s

So even HD is only going at a rate of less than 3MB/s. With 2 clients, the most that it would be doing is 5 reads and writes at the same time which would be 14MB/s. Last time I checked 7200RPM hard drives average at 60MB/s to 50MB/s. Of course there seek time and latency to consider, but it still seems like one drive is enough. But I not completely sure if I'm correct on this

 

[and-81]

You probably don't need to put the timeshifting on a separate disk. You should try it out before you spend the money on another drive...

If you find that it doesn't work then you can always add a drive later.

Good luck,

 

[giantjoebot]

Well I got the drives, Hell I have extra. Its just that this is also a media server. It holds all my movies and music, and I want to put as much hard drive capacity in it as possible. My motherboard can have up to 12 hard drives, but I can only fit 9. 11 if I use drive bays with poor cooling, which I don't really want to do. So if I use a separate drive for time shifting that takes one drive space away from my storage capacity. There was one thing that I was considering, and that was using USB flash drives for timeshifting, but that would wear out eventually since there is a limited amound of read writes that a flash drive can perform. I suppose that I could always replace it, and they are getting cheaper by the day.