MediaPortal and Freenet (DVB-T2 + HEVC/h.265 + CI+ in Germany) (1 Viewer)

joecrow

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  • August 9, 2012
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    Is there a DVBT2 Tuner card available which will support the German Freenet CI+ module to enable me to view the OTA HD HEVC scambled channels?
    I had hoped that the TBS 6528 would do the job but it turns out that it only supports the CI module and specifically states it does not support a CI+ module which, to my knowledge, is all that is available for DVBT2.:(
    If anyone knows or has a working setup that plays the scambled channels please let me know.
     

    pünktchen

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    There will never be a tuner card that supports a CI+ CAM module. But i've heard that Freenet will maybe release a USB stick that has CI+ build in. Propably this will only work with their own specialized player software, because this is the only way they can dictate what people are allowed to record or if people can skip commercials.
     

    joecrow

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    Thanks for that, I may be going a bit off topic with this but I am interested to get a feeling of what the audience here think will be the future of HD DVBT2 TV in Germany. For my own point of view I wouldn't mind getting a look at RTL again (its been some while since they stopped transmitting OTA in Munich but I'm not at all sure that I would be willing to pay long term to view channels with advertising which I very rarely watch currently for free (Sat 1 Pro 7 etc). RTL does get a piece of the Champions league and F1, but is it worth it? I also note that there are no dual tuner Top set boxes in the "approved" device list, no chance to view one channel while recording another, interesting step backwards?o_O Even going back to the start of DVBT I had a dual tuner receiver and regularly used it to view and record to video tape.:eek:
    I do wonder, given we will get a couple more HD channels on free view, if the general public will take up Freenet(unfortunate name that:rolleyes:)HD pay TV and why the privat networks think they are worth it?
     

    mm1352000

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    <off-topic>
    There will never be a tuner card that supports a CI+ CAM module.
    "Never" is a very long time.

    I consider CableCARD in the US to be very similar (physical and technical CAM/CableCARD specifications, pairing etc.) to CI+... and yes, there are tuners available for PCs.

    I may be going a bit off topic with this but I am interested to get a feeling of what the audience here think will be the future of HD DVBT2 TV in Germany.
    This would be interesting, but way off topic for this thread. Please can you start a separate thread.
     

    pünktchen

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    ... and yes, there are tuners available for PCs.
    You mean CableCard tuners here, don't you? Correct me if i'm wrong, but there are only two products available that support CableCard after all these years: HDHomerun Prime and Ceton Infinity. And the copy protected channels are only working in WMC. With the end of WMC and a still growing market for online content i don't expect any new pc hardware - neighter for US, not for European market. Not only because of the copy protection chain, but also because of the licensing costs for CI+.
     

    mm1352000

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    @pünktchen
    Sorry for the slow reply. I've been away for 3 days.
    CI+ is off-topic for this thread, but briefly...

    You mean CableCard tuners here, don't you?
    Yes. However I've read reports here on our forum that say certain CI+ CAMs can work with PC tuner CI slots as long as the provider doesn't require pairing.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but there are only two products available that support CableCard after all these years: HDHomerun Prime and Ceton Infinity.
    You're wrong. :)
    All conventional US cable STBs use CableCARDs. It's an FCC requirement.

    Even for PC there are more than two products:
    • ATI
      • TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner
    • Ceton
      • infiniTV 4 USB
      • infiniTV 4 PCIe
      • infiniTV 6 PCIe
      • infiniTV 6 ETH
    • Hauppauge
      • WinTV DCR-2650
      • WinTV DCR-3250
    • SiliconDust
      • HDHomeRun PRIME
      • TECH3 6CC
    I understand the point you're trying to make (limited choice of product is bad/pointless), but I don't agree. I don't think the product choice is too limited, and I think it's better to have even one product than none.

    And the copy protected channels are only working in WMC.
    Again I understand the point you're trying to make.

    The relevant standards and certification processes are available to any person or organisation that wants to implement them, not just MS/WMC. Other software vendors could decide to add support at any time. Actually there are phone apps, tablet apps, TVs, and other devices which can receive TV using network-attached CableCARD tuners (eg. PRIME, infiniTV ETH). I don't think the CableCARD situation is as bad as you describe it... and it's far better than the situation with CI+.

    With the end of WMC...
    Again I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't agree. Don't forget that WMC still works fine on W7 and W8. There are also unofficial patches/releases for W10. Clearly some people consider that it's still a viable solution even if you don't agree.

    ...i don't expect any new pc hardware - neighter for US, not for European market. Not only because of the copy protection chain, but also because of the licensing costs for CI+.
    With respect, I hope you will be wrong. It would be sad if the only legitimate ways that we could watch premium content were fully controlled by content providers and distributors. Choice of hardware and/or software would be great.
     

    joecrow

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    With respect, I hope you will be wrong. It would be sad if the only legitimate ways that we could watch premium content were fully controlled by content providers and distributors. Choice of hardware and/or software would be great.
    I hope that too but the response I got from TBS to a when for CI+ support is not encouraging, they indicated that it was very unlikely that a PC system would ever be certified for CI+.o_O
    I am still very curious to understand where DVBT2 in Germany is heading though. Getting the publicly funded channels in full HD without additional charges is of course good and I presume part of the remit to cover rural areas where OTA may be the only option. Beyond that though the move to a subsciption for the private channels is a loss of choice compared to the existing system where they are free. The private channels are also not what I would define as premium either (value for money and public acceptance??) and no Sky or HBO type channels, though I guess that is a possibility in the future with an additional charge and a card in the CI+ module?:rolleyes: I also do not understand why at present, anyway, they are only offering top set boxes with a single tuner is there a technical reason for that? In comparison HD cable which also uses CI+, offers up to 4 tuner TSBs.
     

    mm1352000

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    I hope that too but the response I got from TBS to a when for CI+ support is not encouraging, they indicated that it was very unlikely that a PC system would ever be certified for CI+.o_O
    If CableCARD and all the other internet services (NetFlix etc.) can be implemented on a PC, so can CI+.

    In all examples (CableCARD etc.) the PC system must meet basic requirements (HDCP etc.).

    For the tuner itself, the design can be similar to a CableCARD tuner where the tuner acts as an encryption-to-DRM translation server. The CI+ CAM is used to decrypt (Nagra, Irdeto etc.) the incoming stream. So far that's the same as normal CI. The difference is that before releasing the stream to the client, the tuner applies DRM (PlayReady etc.). This means the content is always protected. From then on the client is responsible for protecting the content. It's definitely doable.

    AFAIK the Microsoft PBDA framework supports all of this stuff.

    I am still very curious to understand where DVBT2 in Germany is heading though.
    If I were you I would boycott the service and discourage everybody from buying it. Closed services with limited choices don't get my support.

    I also do not understand why at present, anyway, they are only offering top set boxes with a single tuner is there a technical reason for that?
    Nope, there's no technical reason. The providers are just greedy and mean.
     

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