Movie quality using MediaPortal's default player (1 Viewer)

[WTBHelp]

I've tried a lot of stuff, but cant get the default player's quality to get close to PowerDVD 6 (3 years old) video quality.

For some reason, Power DVD generates a much clearer, brighter, richer picture with better contrasts. If I play the exact same file with the 2 players, Power DVD comes out on top. If I use Windows MediaPlayer or VLC to play from the Raw DVD drive and Power DVD to play a xvid, mp3, 1.5GB 2bpp avi file, then Power DVD comes out on top again.

How is this possible? Im busy getting a new HTPC setup working and really want to get the best quality picture on my TV for the money.

Thanks guys.

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Update: I forgot to mention that I'm using MovingPictures to watch movie files, and the basic menu portal on the homepage to watch DVDs. Unfortunately PowerDVD doesnt let me take screenshots, but I've tested both players on the exact same raw DVD, with the windows next to each other, and Power DVD comes out on top every time. Any ideas WTF is going on?

Thanks,

There has actually been a lot of info posted on this. Its some kind of a video card software problem, whereas PDVD users overlay to run the video straight from the DVD, MediaPortal uses VRM9.

I'll have to figure out where the problem is re: my 1x1900xt. A lot harder than it looks!

 

[Owlsroost]

System specs ?

Codec choices ?

Have you looked at which codecs MP is actually using (when playing) with GraphStudio ?

Do you have any picture enhancement stuff turned on in PDVD ?

Tony

 

[kiwijunglist]

are you using the PDVD codec within mediaportal? Try runing a graph

 

[WTBHelp]

are you using the PDVD codec within mediaportal? Try runing a graph

Hey buddy,

I'm off in 10min to go get my new TV. I have never heard of GraphStudio but will check it out as soon as I get back. I think I know what the issue is though and I dont think we can solve it without massive hassles. I opened a DVD in PDVD, and open a simultaneous window using MediaPortal. I opened Catalyst (x1900xt card), and moved my brightness to max. The MediaPortal window changed, the PDVD one remained perfect. MediaPortal is using VRM9 to render the video, PDVD uses overlay (I'm new to these terms, so I may not know WTF I'm talking about - just regurgitating what I read). The video's quality depends on on my settings, and not the DVD's native settings, which sucks, because I have to go through a whole process of calibrating my monitor.

I'm using ffsdhow. I pointed ALL my codecs in MP config to ffdshow, and then in ffdshow have this:


I've tried a lot of things to get it right, setting the input black level starting at 16 etc. There was some useful posts:
Brightness Level - MediaPortal Forum

I tried tweaking my catalyst settings but did more damage than good (I dont have a calibration tool).

I wish PDVD would let me take a screenshot and then you could see exactly what I'm talking about. Finding Nemo on PDWD has got rich, vibrant, clear, beautiful looking images. On MediaPortal, it looks washed out, looks like it has too much brightness. If there is a plant in the shadow of some coral on the movie, I can see it clearly in PDVD, in MP its just dark.

I'm starting to get frustrated with the amount of tweaking required to get MP up and running. A codec for this, a patch for that. Reminds me of my Ubuntu adoption days which I eventually threw out. I'll stick at it though cause I think the program has got so much potential.

Chat to you when I get back.

PS. As I'm planning to get a new card, I wont calibrate anything until its up and running. If there is a minor immediate fix I can work at, I'll do it. Please advise.

PS PS. I tried changing all the codecs around, using PDVD and what not. It was always the same. The only thing that changed it was the brightness/contrast ratios in CCC. Even then, I couldnt get it close. The colors in PDVD just looked so much more awesome. BRB.

MORE INFO: By the way, VLC, WMP and MP all show the same video quality. PDVD is the only want to totally kicks arse. I cant spend a few 100 bucks on getting a new HTPC setup and not have it working at 110% performance. BRB.

 

[kiwijunglist]

i assume you've tried using the PDVD codecs within mediaportal.

if you have loss of fine detail in dark pictures it maybe a color space problem.
im not sure but maybe video overlay and VMR9 are using a different colour space.

Basically some displays do 16-235 some do 0-255 some do both.
If you are sending a 0-255 signal to a 16-235 display then you will loose dark detail, because all the colours from 0-15 are cropped to 16.
To complicate things further SD video is sometimes rendered as 16-235 whereas HD video is rendered as 0-255
This is a really simple/crude explanation its actually a bit more complex

If you think this is the problem, you could try the following
Open ATI config, set to RGB 0-255
Open ffdshow settings, set output to RGB 0-255
Run ATI registry tweak ATI HD Registry Tweaks (This makes sure all video is rendered/expanded to 0-255 to achieve consistent levels)
I recommend keeping brightness in ATI config set to default and instead adjusting brightness/contrast on your display

Some users instead recommend running everything at 16-235
The main things is to use the same color space for output and display and have consistent levels, then adjust your brightness on your display.

 

[Owlsroost]

I agree with kiwijunglist - it looks like you have a video levels problem. Try using the LCD monitor test images test patterns to set up the basic desktop levels correctly (the 'Black level' and 'White saturation' patterns are really useful for this purpose).

Personally I find the FFDshow MPEG-2 decoder looks a liitle bit washed-out compared to PDVD7/8/9 codecs in MP anyway - the PDVD codecs are probably the best for picture quality (IMHO). Next best is probably the Dscaler 5 codec.

To check the video levels, this is a good HD MPEG-2 greyscale pattern - http://www.w6rz.net/ramp.zip (the dotted vertical lines are at the 16 and 235 levels - these are the standard video black and white levels)- and there are other HD patterns here - AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray, HD DVD, & MP4 Calibration - AVS Forum. For SD video, try the 'levels.zip' attached to this post - ATI Radeon HD 2X00 (2400,2600,2900) series owners thread - Page 179 - AVS Forum

Tony

 

[WTBHelp]

I agree with kiwijunglist - it looks like you have a video levels problem. Try using the LCD monitor test images test patterns to set up the basic desktop levels correctly (the 'Black level' and 'White saturation' patterns are really useful for this purpose).

Personally I find the FFDshow MPEG-2 decoder looks a liitle bit washed-out compared to PDVD7/8/9 codecs in MP anyway - the PDVD codecs are probably the best for picture quality (IMHO). Next best is probably the Dscaler 5 codec.

To check the video levels, this is a good HD MPEG-2 greyscale pattern - http://www.w6rz.net/ramp.zip (the dotted vertical lines are at the 16 and 235 levels - these are the standard video black and white levels)- and there are other HD patterns here - AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray, HD DVD, & MP4 Calibration - AVS Forum. For SD video, try the 'levels.zip' attached to this post - ATI Radeon HD 2X00 (2400,2600,2900) series owners thread - Page 179 - AVS Forum

Tony

Wow thanks man. You guys are really awesome. I'm inspired again to get this working, ahahahah I did order a new 5770 in the end so it doesnt make sense to start tweaking before I get the card. It gets here on Saturday so this weekend should be a lot of fun!!! First thing I'm going to do is calibrate the ATI software. Having all these test tools in one place is really useful, thanks man.

So a quick question based on this - should I disable all my settings on my TV so that the PC handles the contrasts etc. I think I read that somewhere. Not sure how to do it on my new TV (32LH30-UA) but I will check it out when it arrives. What about my PC screen, is that already disabled? Mmmm, need to check this out.

I plan on reformatting down the road too, Win7 upgrade. What a pain in the arse that will be with all these settings.

Anyway, thanks again. As soon as I have the setup up and running, I'll post again.

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Also forgot to mention that my new blu ray drive comes with PowerDVD 9 so I will try their codecs and let you know. I dont know what codecs PDVD6 was using but it really is an amazing program. Its visibly different and 100% better than the stream in VLC, WMP and MediaPortal. All those streams were exactly the same, slightly washed out, and a little too bright (couldnt see in shadows).

If you ask my inexperienced opinion, I think its Cyberlink's CLEV-2 Eagle Vision technology that automatically adjusts your view to the best settings, regardless of what your contrast ratios are etc. The program is amazing.

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Quick questions - just so I understand this correctly. If I want to play a video from the hard drive through MediaPortal, I will need to have these codecs setup right?




If PowerDVD9 supplies me with all 4 codecs, do I even need FFDShow? Thanks.

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[kiwijunglist]

i recommend when you get your new components you reformat the computer, start a fresh and install SAF codec pack (Follow the instructions in the first post of the SAF thread to the letter) along with PDVD9 for watching bluray. SAF will automatically setup everything for you. AFAIK you should install PDVD before SAF.

For TV setup. Start with default settings, then turn off all dynamic settings eg. motion plus, interpolation, dynamic contrast etc, set RGB to fullrange on the TV (On Samsung TV this is called low HDMI black level). Use TV to adjust brightness/contrast don't use video card settings if you can avoid it.

 

[WTBHelp]

i recommend when you get your new components you reformat the computer, start a fresh and install SAF codec pack (Follow the instructions in the first post of the SAF thread to the letter) along with PDVD9 for watching bluray. SAF will automatically setup everything for you. AFAIK you should install PDVD before SAF.

For TV setup. Start with default settings, then turn off all dynamic settings eg. motion plus, interpolation, dynamic contrast etc, set RGB to fullrange on the TV (On Samsung TV this is called low HDMI black level). Use TV to adjust brightness/contrast don't use video card settings if you can avoid it.

Thanks buddy. TV arrives tonight so I will start playing with it as soon as I have things setup. They didnt have it in stock last night so I have to go pick it up at another store. Its gonna be a long road to success, ahahha.

A question on the codecs - I see 4 in MediaPortal that need to be setup correct? The way I understand it, 2 for regular DVDs and 2 for Blu Ray, with DVD and Blu Ray having a video and audio codec each.

DVD = MPEG-2, AC3
Blu Ray = H.264, AAC

Seems like PDVD 9 will be able to handle the video codecs correct? Do I only need to config the 2 audio codecs to be able to play hard drive videos, DVDs and Blu Rays in the default player? In that case, how come I need a bloated coded pack like SAF or every FFDShow. Whats the benefit of having them all?

I guess not every vid or DVD I come across will have MPEG-4/2 or AC3/AAC. How does MediaPortal default player deal with that?

Thanks buddy. You should post some pics of your setup in a thread, show I some screen shots. You know a ton about this stuff. Time to gloat and show us what you've got under your sleave!

 

[kiwijunglist]

installing saf (unlocked version, carefully following the instructions) takes care of dvd/hdtv/HD video files/online videos/etc...
you don't need to worry about setting it up, it will setup all the settings perfectly and make all the choices for you.
saf is not bloated, it actually doesn't contain many codecs at all. i don't like codec packs, but saf i think is ok.
you need external application to play bluray, so install pdvd9 to play bluray.

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EDIT: Also download 'hirens boot cd' (use google to find it)

Use backup tool -> True image to make a backup after you format/install windows
Then make a 2nd backup after installing drivers (except for video card driver)
Then make a 3rd backup after installing video card driver
Then make a 4th backup after installing mediaportal
Then make a 5th backup after installing pdvd9/saf stuff

(guaranteed to save u time in the future!)