PMT Pid wasn't found on the PAT (1 Viewer)

[doveman]

MediaPortal Version: v1.2.1
MediaPortal Skin: StreamedMP
Windows Version: Win7 Ult 64
CPU Type: Phenom II X4 955
HDD: 2TB Samsung F4
Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz
Motherboard: MSI 990FXA-GD80
Video Card: HD6950 2GB
Video Card Driver: 11.12
Sound Card: onboard Realtek AC97 (ALC892)
Sound Card AC3: no AC3
Sound Card Driver: 6.01.6482
1. TV Card: Hauppauge Nova-T 500
1. TV Card Type: DVB-T
1. TV Card Driver: 4.3.27240
MPEG2 Video Codec: MS DTV
MPEG2 Audio Codec: MS DTV
h.264 Video Codec: LAV
Satelite/CableTV Provider:
HTPC Case: Custom
Cooling: Scythe 120mm Bottom Intake Fan, TRUE Rev. c CPU HSF
Power Supply: Antec CP-850
Remote: Nova-T 500
TV: Sony XBR800 36"
TV - HTPC Connection: DVI

Despite rescanning and setting the PAT debugoption in TV Server config (as advised in another thread) I'm still getting a lot of "PMT Pid wasn't found on the PAT" messages in the TsWriter log.

 

[jameson_uk]

Well one thing is certainly

2012-01-03 20:11:47.387809 [DVB EPG timer(17)]: EpgCard: unable to grab epg transponder: 3 ch: CNN started on -1
2012-01-03 20:11:47.391810 [DVB EPG timer(17)]: DVBT:tv:Turner CNN Freq:578000 ONID:9018 TSID:20480 SID:24192 PMT:0x2D1 FTA:True LCN:84 BandWidth:8

CNN stopped transmitting on Freeview a while ago so you need to delete this channel.

same goes for TV News

2012-01-03 23:49:39.031465 [DVB EPG timer(3)]: EpgCard: unable to grab epg transponder: 4 ch: TV News started on -1
2012-01-03 23:49:39.032465 [DVB EPG timer(3)]: DVBT:tv:Cellcast TV News Freq:538000 ONID:9018 TSID:24576 SID:27968 PMT:0x40E FTA:True LCN:90 BandWidth:8

Fairly sure deleting both these channels will remove these warnings from the logs

 

[doveman]

So why weren't they removed when I did a re-scan the other day. Do I have to delete all channels before scanning to get a correct list of channels?

 

[mm1352000]

I confirm that scanning does not delete channels.

mm

 

[doveman]

OK. Is this being worked on as users can't really be expected to know when channels have stopped broadcasting and that they therefore need to delete them manually?

 

[elliottmc]

OK. Is this being worked on as users can't really be expected to know when channels have stopped broadcasting and that they therefore need to delete them manually?

The problem is, some channels do not broadcast all of the time, so if we automatically deleted a channel when it was not detected, this could break functionality for some users.

I agree that the current situation is not ideal, and I think we need to give the user the choice when a scan is completed.

If mm agrees with this approach (present user with a list of non-detected channels with the option to keep or delete) then I will mantis it.

Mark

 

[jameson_uk]

OK. Is this being worked on as users can't really be expected to know when channels have stopped broadcasting and that they therefore need to delete them manually?

We have been here before.....

Different broadcasters identify valid sets of channels in different ways. So in the UK alone Freeview, Freesat and Sky all identify the current channel line up. If you buy a Freeview box it only has to deal with Freeview, if you buy a Freesat box it only has to deal with Freesat, if you want Sky you get a Sky box which only has to deal with Sky...

Now this has even more issues as things like during the day Freesat does not transmit BBC3 so as it stands MP does not know about this channel (so if we delete channels that are not identified then BBC3 would get deleted even though it is still a valid channel).

Then take it to the next level and what you have (if as many UK users do) combined Freeview and Freesat channels. If a channel stops broadcasting on Freeview but continues on Satellite (as CNN did recently) then MP can not delete the channel after scanning DVB-T as the same channel is shared across DVB-T and DVB-S.

No scale this up again in that most providers do not actually identify channels.... When channels move some providers create a new copy of the channel (so it is transmitting twice) and then delete the old one some time later. So you can end up with two copies of the same channel. What should happen on a dedicated STB is that any recording schedules linked to the old tuning details would be moved to the new tuning details but the way this is done is unique to each provider. You are going to mention channel name here but that is not enough... Take Channel 4 and you will see there are about 10 regional variations on satellite all called "Channel 4"

Now up another notch and what happens if a user has deleted some crap channels already? When scanning, this channel would pop back up and MP would then need to try and identify if it was a genuine new channel, a moved one or one that was previously deleted by a user and then take into account the other stuff and it gets more complicated...

Quite simply as discussed many times before, there will be no Freeview tick box. Freeview is probably one of 150+ different providers and if you consider how many people have multiple providers the number of combinations is pretty large.

What is likely to happen is something like https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...st-here-48/custom-data-grabber-plugins-96767/ will be extended as this is a system that will allow for the different providers as plugins.

This however is a massive bit of work so don't expect anything soon

 

[doveman]

OK. Is this being worked on as users can't really be expected to know when channels have stopped broadcasting and that they therefore need to delete them manually?

The problem is, some channels do not broadcast all of the time, so if we automatically deleted a channel when it was not detected, this could break functionality for some users.

I agree that the current situation is not ideal, and I think we need to give the user the choice when a scan is completed.

If mm agrees with this approach (present user with a list of non-detected channels with the option to keep or delete) then I will mantis it.

Mark

I understand how this is a problem, I just wonder how Freeview STB manage it (or were you not referring to Freeview and in fact Freeview channels all do broadcast all the time, although I don't think this is the case)?

 

[jameson_uk]

I understand how this is a problem, I just wonder how Freeview STB manage it (or were you not referring to Freeview and in fact Freeview channels all do broadcast all the time, although I don't think this is the case)?

Freeview STBs cope with this by only having to cope with Freeview. They do not need to worry about DVB-S, Sky, cable providers in The Netherlands, ATSC providers in America .... which probably all have their own way of doing this (this is the main thing that gives things Freeview / Freesat certification)

It would be simple enough to make MP deal with Freeview as a STB does but this would then cause issues with other providers

 

[Jay_UK]

Hi there,

Referring to Mark's mantis idea... I think it will be a great improvement to give the user the option to add or delete channels after the scan, before they are added to MePo.

A simple window, split into two....left side is newly detected channels, right side is channels no longer transmitting.

Then have a ticked box against each channel to select/deselect it.

J.

ps - I'll go and sit quietly in my corner now