Radio Recordings Info Missing (1 Viewer)

[CyberSimian]

Do you have any plugins installed

My system is MP 1.9.0 pre, plus aMPed 3.6.2, with nothing else; only those "extras" installed as part of the standard MP and aMPed installations are present.

I did some more tests this morning. I thought that I would eliminate the DVR-MS and WTV files (just in case they are mishandled), and use just a single TS file plus XML file recorded by MP and moved from "Recorded TV" to the "Videos" section. Using "Filmstrip Covers" (not "Filmstrip Thumbs") I tested both 1228x690 and 1360x768, and they both exhibited the problems that I have reported before. But this time a new oddity occurred -- a side-bar menu with two choices highlighted (see attached screen shot; it's 1228x690).

As before, because I was not expecting this to happen I was not paying precise attention to what I was doing, but it was something like changing the folder from "List" view to "Filmstrip" view, pressing LEFT (or maybe RIGHT) and returning to an empty panel (no filmstrip covers present). This is similar to what happened previously, when changing from any view to "List" view sometimes resulted in the list being absent from the screen until LEFT or RIGHT was pressed. On this occasion, when I pressed LEFT I got the side-bar menu with two choices highlighted.

Only one choice was "active". Pressing DOWN caused the topmost highlighting to move down one row, and repeated DOWNs brought it to "Play DVD". At this point a further DOWN moved the highlighting down one row, leaving "Play DVD" no longer highlighted (so now it was a normal display, with only one choice highlighted).

I also tried "DefaultWide" and "Titan", but neither of them showed a problem with this single TS file.

If you use the 'Watchdog' (Debug mode) shortcut from Windows Start menu and post the zip of logs it creates (it will provide more than you posted before) I can take a look, or ask one of the developers who might be able to spot more than I can.

I think that I have used this mode before (for other problems!), but this mode seemed to force the "Titan" skin to be used, so unless that action can be overridden to use "aMPed", the debug log would not show the problem.

I don't know what degree of control the skin definitions have over MP's actions. If we start with the simplest case: we display the single TS file in "Filmstrip Covers"; that's OK. Now we can either press LEFT once or press RIGHT twice. In either case we end up on the side-bar menu which is anomalous in different ways:

(1) If we pressed LEFT once, the side-bar menu has "Play DVD" highlighted. How does that happen? Does the skin definition contain a list of the choices that the skin wants to appear, with one of the choices being nominated as the one to be highlighted? Or does the skin specify "I want menu xyz" and it is MP that decides which choices should appear, and which should be highlighted?

If it is the skin that specifies this, then it is probably an error in the skin definition. If it is MP that decides this, then it is probably an error in MP's processing.

(2) If we pressed RIGHT twice, the side-bar menu has no choice highlighted. So again, is it the skin definition that decides which should be highlighted, or is it MP?

I observe in passing that "Filmstrip Covers" has one choice less than "Filmstrip Thumbs", namely "Thumb background". In "DefaultWide" there is actually a gap in the list of choices where "Thumb background" would be, whereas in "aMPed" the gap has been elided. I am just wondering whether the elision of the gap has caused the "choice index" (the index used to select the choice to be highlighted) to be in error by one (or something like that).

Problems like this (where the person attempting to identify the cause of the problem cannot himself reproduce the problem) are horrendous, and to be honest I am not sure that it would be sensible for you or another MP developer to spend any more time on this. Perhaps put this problem on the back-burner for when you or someone else encounters it?

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[Dadeo]

OK one last try - I set the left/right arrows to not go to the menu (normally you use up/down for filmstrip/coverflow because left/right are to go to the next/prev item).
Attached fix for both aMPed covers and thumbs layout.

I have seen the case where the items (list etc) don't display right away after changing the layout in the menu and not only in videos (and not only in aMPed), but I haven't found a workaround yet! Seems to be related to the order the skin engine processes conditions (and aMPed has more than most due to all the options).

I observe in passing that "Filmstrip Covers" has one choice less than "Filmstrip Thumbs", namely "Thumb background". In "DefaultWide" there is actually a gap in the list of choices where "Thumb background" would be, whereas in "aMPed" the gap has been elided.

Thumb background is a unique aMPed feature. Did you switch skins in GUI or reload with Default skin? Switching skins can sometimes leave 'traces'. It's a known issue I reported ages ago, but can't get a developer to work on it.

BTW did you check out the WTV Organizer plugin to see if it would grab the metadata from your WTV files?

 

[CyberSimian]

I set the left/right arrows to not go to the menu (normally you use up/down for filmstrip/coverflow because left/right are to go to the next/prev item). Attached fix for both aMPed covers and thumbs layout.

I have now tested the latest updates. I tested only 1228x690, since prior tests have not revealed any differences between 1228x690 and 1360x768. Also, I looked only at "Filmstrip" and "Coverflow", both for "Covers" and "Thumbs". I did not notice any differences in behaviour between "Filmstrip" and "Coverflow". Finally, I mostly tested using a folder containing a single TS and XML combination, recorded previously using MP.

(1) The arrows do not behave quite as I would have expected. Actually, I am now a bit confused as to what they are supposed to indicate, either:
(a) Presence of an arrow on screen indicates that the corresponding arrow key can be pressed to do something useful, or
(b) Presence of an arrow on screen indicates that there is something off-screen in the direction indicated by the arrow, and that "thing" can be brought on-screen by pressing the corresponding arrow key.

Filmstrip Covers -- Focus on First Box in List
(2) Entering the folder in "Filmstrip Covers", the focus was on the box for the parent folder. The left arrow was visible but the LEFT key did nothing. This seems wrong for both (a) and (b),

There was no right arrow. This would be correct for (b) but wrong for (a).

There was no down arrow, but DOWN did nothing. This is correct for (a) and (b), BUT it causes a "screen blink". A screen blink is when the application blanks the screen (or part of the screen), and then redisplays the identical information (i.e. the screen blink was completely pointless). Screen blinks are visually very disruptive. The comparison is with pressing LEFT, which also does nothing but does not causes a screen blink. If this is controllable by the skin, I think that you should try to avoid screen blinks whenever possible.

UP displayed the side-bar menu with the first choice highlighted (correct).

Filmstrip Covers -- Focus on Second (=Last) Box in List
(3) A left arrow was present, but LEFT moved the focus left. This is correct for (a) and (b).

A right arrow was present but RIGHT did nothing (and did not cause a screen blink). This is wrong for both (a) and (b).

UP displayed the side-bar menu with the first choice highlighted, and DOWN displayed the programme info. This is correct for (a) and (b).

I also tried another folder with more boxes than could fit on the screen. This time there was no right arrow, but pressing RIGHT moved the focus right, and eventually scrolled the boxes to bring into view the boxes off-screen. Absence of the right arrow is incorrect for both (a) and (b), except when the focus is on the last box in the list.

Filmstrip Thumbs -- Focus on First Thumb in List
(4) Same as corresponding case for "Filmstrip Covers".

Filmstrip Thumbs -- Focus on Second (=Last) Thumb in List
(5) Similar to "Filmstrip Covers", except for:

No right arrow (correct, since focus is on the second (last) thumb).

UP displays the side-menu with the first choice hightlighted. This is correct for (a) and (b).

DOWN displays the side-bar menu with no choice highlighted. The corresponding case for "Covers" displays the programme info, and I think that "Thumbs" should too (there doesn't seem to be any reason not to).

UP and DOWN demonstrate the problem with the highlighting of the side-bar menu: UP highlights the first choice, whereas DOWN highlights no choice. If the panel definition is the same with respect to UP and DOWN in this situation, it indicates that the highlighting problem probably originates with MP.

I also tried another folder with more thumbs than could fit on the screen; this had the same error as the corresponding case for "Covers", namely the right arrow was missing.

"Filmstrip Covers" has one choice less than "Filmstrip Thumbs", namely "Thumb background". In "DefaultWide" there is actually a gap in the list of choices where "Thumb background" would be, whereas in "aMPed" the gap has been elided.

Thumb background is a unique aMPed feature. Did you switch skins in GUI or reload with Default skin? Switching skins can sometimes leave 'traces'. It's a known issue I reported ages ago, but can't get a developer to work on it.

I checked this again, by starting "DefaultWide" using a desktop shortcut that specified the "/skin" option on the invocation of "MediaPortal.exe" (I don't know whether this is quite the same as changing the skin setting in "MP Config"). There is a gap in the list of choices where "Thumb background" would be, but I have to admit that I could not find any setting in "DefaultWide" to switch between "Covers" and "Thumbs"!

BTW did you check out the WTV Organizer plugin to see if it would grab the metadata from your WTV files?

I have only 3-4 WTV test files, which I recorded when I was trialling Windows7 to decide whether to migrate from Vista (I decided against making that move!). My library of recordings is entirely DVR-MS, and I have the technology to extract metadata from DVR-MS files. I have written a REXX script to extract the metadata and create an XML file containing the relevant info, so I will use that to create the XML files for MP to use.

More generally, when I start using a complex application, I prefer to use the standard setup for a few months, to get an idea of how reliable it is. Add-ons and extensions are unlikely to improve reliability, but can easily reduce reliability. If you install a new application and immediately load it with extensions, it becomes difficult to identify what is causing the problem.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[Dadeo]

(b) Presence of an arrow on screen indicates that there is something off-screen in the direction indicated by the arrow, and that "thing" can be brought on-screen by pressing the corresponding arrow key.

That's correct - I realize it is not that intuitive, but anyone who uses filmstrip/coverflow soon learns to use up arrow for the menu off screen to the left The reason I did not explicty control the navigation before was to allow you to use left/right arrows which imho is more intuitive. But it seemed to cause you major issues!

The ability to use down arrow was added to filmstrip only recently, tt was hard coded previously. So I added the down arrow button for the details off screen to the right.

As I mentioned previously I would like to make it work like your option a: i.e. corresponding arrow key, but haven't managed to find a design that works for aMPed's umpteen different options (screen sizes, layouts, font sizes etc.). The right and down arrows are conditional if there is a details/metadata view.

The 'screen blink' is beyond my control. It occurs because the right/down arrows are conditional, so the skin engine tries to navigate to them but they aren't there. I'm not really sure why it refreshes the list in that case, but I'm sure there must be some other case that requires it for other skins Better that, than the case you had before were it does not display (e.g. after changing layouts).

I have to admit that I could not find any setting in "DefaultWide" to switch between "Covers" and "Thumbs"!

Yup AFAIK only aMPed offers different Thumbs/Covers layouts for videos. It's mainly because sometimes you have a movie cover/poster and in other cases you have a thumb image from the video. The reason you get a gap in the menu isn't due to covers/thumbs. Defaultwide menu includes an option to jump to TV Series if you have it installed. But, it doesn't use the option to 'close up' the menu when items are missing. Probably because 90+% users install TV Series plugin.

More generally, when I start using a complex application, I prefer to use the standard setup for a few months, to get an idea of how reliable it is. Add-ons and extensions are unlikely to improve reliability, but can easily reduce reliability. If you install a new application and immediately load it with extensions, it becomes difficult to identify what is causing the problem.

Yeah, it's what I always recommend to new users (and in Wiki) Just thought I'd mention the WTV plugin so you know the option exists.

OK just to confirm, did the files I posted fix your problems accessing menu items? Is it only the confusing arrows you still have issues with?

 

[CyberSimian]

The reason I did not explicitly control the navigation before was to allow you to use left/right arrows which imho is more intuitive.

Yes, I agree; I noticed this "awkwardness" when I was testing yesterday. To go from filmstrip to side-bar menu you press UP, but to return from side-bar menu to filmstrip you press LEFT or RIGHT. But even if LEFT or RIGHT on filmstrip took you to the side-bar menu, if you were in the middle of a long list you would still press UP to get to the menu quickly, to avoid having to scroll left or right multiple times in order to get to the start or end of the list!

OK just to confirm, did the files I posted fix your problems accessing menu items? Is it only the confusing arrows you still have issues with?

Yes, I did get rather carried away with the arrows! There remains one case that is not correct:

DOWN from "Filmstrip Covers" displays the programme info (good!).
DOWN from "Filmstrip Thumbs" displays the side-bar menu with no choice highlighted (bad!).

In both cases, UP displays the side-bar menu with first choice highlighted, so there is no point in DOWN from "Filmstrip Thumbs" also displaying the side-bar menu (especially since it has no choice highlighted!). There seems no reason to make "Thumbs" different from "Covers" here, so making DOWN from "Thumbs" display programme info provides extra function to the end user, and avoids the error case!

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[Dadeo]

OK thanks for confirming. Attached fix for down arrow on Video Thumbs.layout.
Hopefully all works for you now. Please confirm so I can 'fix' all the filmstrip layouts throughout aMPed the same way. Thanks!

 

[CyberSimian]

Attached fix for down arrow on Video Thumbs.layout. Hopefully all works for you now. Please confirm so I can 'fix' all the filmstrip layouts throughout aMPed the same way. Thanks!

I have now tested the revised files.

(1) I cannot find any way to get to the side-bar menu with no choice highlighted, so that problem seems fixed!

(2) I notice that you have re-instated LEFT from first item and RIGHT from last item going to the side-bar menu; that does seem more natural.

(3) On "Filmstrip Covers", I have noticed an unexpected behaviour of the arrows. Most of the files that I have used for testing are DVR-MS files that currently lack XML files. However, I have generated one XML file, and that revealed strange handling of the down and right arrows:
(a) If the item has an XML file (i.e. programme info to display), and there are items off the right edge of the screen, both down and right arrows are visible (see first screen shot).
(b) If the item does not have an XML file, no down arrow is displayed (correct), but neither is the right arrow displayed, even though there are items off the right edge of the screen (see second screen shot).

(4) On "Filmstrip Thumbs", no down arrow is displayed (since no programme info is displayed for "Thumbs"), but neither is any right arrow displayed, even when there are items off the right edge of the screen.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[Dadeo]

I cannot find any way to get to the side-bar menu with no choice highlighted, so that problem seems fixed!

That was imho the most important/functional issue.

Right and down arrows display only if there is metadata offscreen to the right, not more items. The arrow indicates a 'details' view is available. So what you describe is 'intended' or correct behaviour..