Request for IT section on logo database (1 Viewer)

[HTPCSourcer]

I think the main problem is with DVB-T

No, the subject is independent of how the channels are aired. It is a question of whether the channel is a local one something that you can receive internationally.

For example Rai 1 is broadcasted on Astra (and opther satellites) and can therefore be received everywhere in Europe.IN this respect it is not important if you are getting it via DVB-T, you still capture the same channel with the same program and can therfore use the very same logo. Things would be differnt if there was for example a local channel like Milanese TV, which would be better placed in a Italy channel group.

That said, I'd need to delete every occurrence of Rai 1 through the different country groups and only keep one single instance of the logo while adding the differnt aliases that it might have had in other regions. And this for almost every European channel in the database.

Does this make sense to you?

Now where things would begin to get really complicated is a situation where for example a channel in Europe and another different channel in say Australia have the same name. Then we would be in trouble. Hopefully this is only a theoretical scenario.

 

[Alberto83]

No, the subject is independent of how the channels are aired. It is a question of whether the channel is a local one something that you can receive internationally.

It is independent but it's almost the same concept. DVB-T transmission are local indeed, while DVB-S are mostly global by continent.

For example Rai 1 is broadcasted on Astra (and opther satellites) and can therefore be received everywhere in Europe.IN this respect it is not important if you are getting it via DVB-T, you still capture the same channel with the same program and can therfore use the very same logo. Things would be differnt if there was for example a local channel like Milanese TV, which would be better placed in a Italy channel group.

That said, I'd need to delete every occurrence of Rai 1 through the different country groups and only keep one single instance of the logo while adding the differnt aliases that it might have had in other regions. And this for almost every European channel in the database.

Does this make sense to you?

It makes a lot of sense but then you have the problem you talk about later..

Now where things would begin to get really complicated is a situation where for example a channel in Europe and another different channel in say Australia have the same name. Then we would be in trouble. Hopefully this is only a theoretical scenario.

This one will be the issue. If we have a single "worldwide" channel there might be mismatch between different continents.
Now, let's try to call an area where there cannot be two different channels with the same name a "broadcast domain". It's safe to assume that if more than a RAI 1 exists in that broadcast domain, it is a duplicate of that channel (this happens here, at least. I lost count of how many La7 we have). Now these broadcast domains already exists, DVB-T is a broadcast domain for a single country, DVB-S is a broadcast domain for a single continent.
DVB-T Italy is one broadcast domain, and there will be a single RAI 1 Channel, or multiple copies of the same RAI 1 Channel (thus a single record in the database).
DVB-S Europe is another broadcast domain for all europe, and there will be a single RAI 1 channel, or multiple copies of the same RAI 1 Channel.
DVB-S USA is another broadcast domain, for united states. In this case RAI 1 Channel might be another channel, with another logo, without any interference with RAI 1 in Europe.

I think this could safely remove the problem of channels with same name in different continents. We WILL have duplicates between DVB-S and DVB-T and even between DVB-T Italy and DVB-T Uk, for example, but if we keep the concept of broadcast domains, the database is normalized indeed, because inside the very same broadcast domain, we won't have duplicates.
If we use AirMedium+Country+ChannelName as key for a record, we're good to go. This automatically manages aliases because RAI 1 and RAI 1 HD in italy using DVB-T are two different records, that can share the same logo (or not: actually RAI 1 and RAI 1 HD have different logos here).

Logos could be stored as BLOB in a separate table and referenced with a unique guid for every channel, which allows us to reuse the same logo without wasting space in duplicates.

This goes under the assumption that multiple channel with the same name does not exist in the same broadcast domain, and if they do, they're different instances of the same channel.
Do you think this could solve the problems?

 

[HTPCSourcer]

Do you think this could solve the problems?

Possibly.

The practical issue though is that the NoCrosshair site is a database application with a certain structure. So changing things there would mean:

1. Reprogram the complete application
2. Redo all channel definitions
3. Reprogram the logo management of MP2

This is very unlikely to happen as there simpoly is not enough work resource for any of these tasks. I'd rather continue with the current setup and keep cleaning up the duplicates between different countries. Users should post problems in a dedicated logo thread if for example they continue to get incorrect logos for a channel. These can then be resolved case by case.

 

[Alberto83]

Possibly.

The practical issue though is that the NoCrosshair site is a database application with a certain structure. So changing things there would mean:

1. Reprogram the complete application
2. Redo all channel definitions
3. Reprogram the logo management of MP2

This is very unlikely to happen as there simpoly is not enough work resource for any of these tasks. I'd rather continue with the current setup and keep cleaning up the duplicates between different countries. Users should post problems in a dedicated logo thread if for example they continue to get incorrect logos for a channel. These can then be resolved case by case.

I agree with everything you said.
The worse problem is the Mediaportal 2 reconfiguration and migrating data.
Reprogramming the application and even make it compatible with the current mediaportal calls might even be done in parallel, but data migration will be a pain in the ass and MP2 rewrite of the logo management will be a problem. I don't know which part of mediaportal 2 now is tasked with logo management, but with this solution i think the TVE would be supposed to do the job, since it's the one that manages the TV tuners and knows which one is DVB-T or C or S. Now, if i recall correctly now TVE3 is in code freeze.
Speaking of which, and going a little OT, do you need testers for TVE3.5? I have a multiseat setup and I tend to switch between clients often, i might help testing some of the new features.​

 

[HTPCSourcer]

I don't know which part of mediaportal 2 now is tasked with logo management, but with this solution i think the TVE would supposed to do the job

No, TVE handles the streams. Logo management is something different, which is done inside of MP.

Speaking of which, and going a little OT, do you need testers for TVE3.5?

Testing of TVE 3.5 (tswriter part) is currently taking place among the internal testing team. I trust that the developer @mm1352000 will call for public testing when he thinks that the development status is sufficiently advanced.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

A slightly better and easier management could consist of storing logos as discussed - but to associate them with the country that they originate from. So Italina broadcaster Rai and its channels would all fall within IT, German channels under DE, etc.

While this would for example work very well for Rai channels, we run into the same ambiguities again when dealing with channels from networks like Sky. For the latter we would still need to decide to put them into one specific country and not duplicate them across the board.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

but to associate them with the country that they originate from

It is actually working quite well. I started to clean the database. You'll see that the country group AF has disappeared. It contained Australia and New Zeeland channels, which are now part of the respective country groups.

However, it is an awful lot of manual work. For every channel that needs to be "moved" it is neceesary to download the logo, make a screenshot of the details, then delete the channel and create a new one via submit. So for all Italian channels it would be necessary tro remve them from all other country groups and recreate them in the IT group by selecting "Italy" in the country download list.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

Hi Alberto,

I moved the Rai channels from DE to IT. There still is a number of other Rai channels stored under CH. Can/should these be moved to IT?

 

[Alberto83]

I'm sorry i just read all the messages. For some reason i wasn't notified by email of new posts. My sincere apologies.
While RAI SAT, RAI Sport+ and RAI News (which i think it was the old RAI news 24) seems not to be broadcast on DVB-T they should be still part of the RAIWay group, and should be on the IT section of the database.

Do you need help cleaning the database? If you want, for the IT section i could start from scratch.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

Do you need help cleaning the database?

No more need, I did it myself . But you could of course check if what I did under IT is correct. Any other hint about remaining Italian channels in other regions to be moved to IT would also be welcome.