Resolution Confusion?? (1 Viewer)

[S_Behn]

If the watched material you are watching is good enough and your system fast enough to be capable of playing this material at 1920*1080 then a simple answer: YES!

 

[winterescape]

This thread has got me re-evaluating my own HTPC resolution settings and has changed what I thought I understood.

So my TV is a Panasonic TH-42PX60U native resolution is 1024x768 and it is driven with HDMI, the only digital input.

The manual states it will only accept 480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p.

I am running XP.
Here is a link to the manual, page 42 is the HDMI info, page 46 specs --- > http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH37PX60U.pdf

What output setting would you recommend? And what nvidia specific settings?
Thanks…

P.S. I assume kiwijunglist when you stated "You need to turn off "overscan" in the video card settings on your computer." you are suggesting resizing the desktop ??

 

[kiwijunglist]

This thread has got me re-evaluating my own HTPC resolution settings and has changed what I thought I understood.

So my TV is a Panasonic TH-42PX60U native resolution is 1024x768 and it is driven with HDMI, the only digital input.

The manual states it will only accept 480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p.

I am running XP.
Here is a link to the manual, page 42 is the HDMI info, page 46 specs --- > http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH37PX60U.pdf

What output setting would you recommend? And what nvidia specific settings?
Thanks…

P.S. I assume kiwijunglist when you stated "You need to turn off "overscan" in the video card settings on your computer." you are suggesting resizing the desktop ??

No, resizing the desktop is not the same as overscan

I recommend you try

1. desktop resolution = 1024 x 768

2. overscan video card settings = 0% or 'native mode'

3. set tv mode to pixelixel mapping (aka 1:1 pixelmapping mode), on Samsung tv this is called 'Just Scan'
Samsung pic mode button toggles 16x9 -> 4x3 -> Zoom -> Wide Zoom -> Just Scan

4. View this image full screen with 100% zoom (ie no magnification)

Instructions on how to correctly do this here -> http://forum.tigerdave.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=357&sid=6c7fad71b969cd1a568634813088cfde
Image -> http://www.tigerdave.com/images/testpatterns/1024x768_overscan.gif
Ensure you have 0% overscan
5. Run mediaportal, choose settings, screen calibration

I quickly googled your tv and pixel mapping
HTPC Resolution for Panasonic TH-42px60u - AVS Forum
Your set does 1:1 mapping so that is great
Don't worry about how the user is complaining of a stretched picture, that is fixed in step number 5 (Mediaportal internal screen calibration)

 

[winterescape]

kiwijunglist, Thanks for all the info, I appreciate the education.

My first efforts to get it to actually drive it at 1024x768 have failed. I can set the desktop to that size but the nvidia driver then seems to jump to drive the TV @ 1080p.

Reading the thread you linked I found this comment"the panasonic has an internal scalar that prevents you from doing 1:1 pixel mapping directly over DVI/HDMI. The custom resolution I have posted has been successfully used by several others on this forum."

This seems to be the concern that Owlsroost had posted earlier...

 

[kiwijunglist]

kiwijunglist, Thanks for all the info, I appreciate the education.

My first efforts to get it to actually drive it at 1024x768 have failed. I can set the desktop to that size but the nvidia driver then seems to jump to drive the TV @ 1080p.

you can try using powerstrip to force the 1024x768 resolution over hdmi/dvi
or you can try VGA connection
typically VGA connection compared to DVI/HDMI is not as good
however 1024x768 is not a high resolution (it's actually fairly low and well within VGA specs) so i think the above comparison is invalid.

i think most important first step is to get 1:1 mapping to avoid double scaling and overscaning issues

Reading the thread you linked I found this comment"the panasonic has an internal scalar that prevents you from doing 1:1 pixel mapping directly over DVI/HDMI. The custom resolution I have posted has been successfully used by several others on this forum."

This seems to be the concern that Owlsroost had posted earlier...

re: this thread here -> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=872194

.... the comment by heart surgeon may be correct in that you can't achieve 1024x768 over HDMI, however if you read the posts by that user then you will see that he has a different TV to yours, and he also gives some incorrect advice in other parts of the thread! therefore i would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

 

[winterescape]

you can try using powerstrip to force the 1024x768 resolution over hdmi/dvi
or you can try VGA connection
typically VGA connection compared to DVI/HDMI is not as good
however 1024x768 is not a high resolution (it's actually fairly low and well within VGA specs) so i think the above comparison is invalid.

i think most important first step is to get 1:1 mapping to avoid double scaling and overscaning issues

Reading the thread you linked I found this comment"the panasonic has an internal scalar that prevents you from doing 1:1 pixel mapping directly over DVI/HDMI. The custom resolution I have posted has been successfully used by several others on this forum."

This seems to be the concern that Owlsroost had posted earlier...

re: this thread here -> HTPC Resolution for Panasonic TH-42px60u - AVS Forum

.... the comment by heart surgeon may be correct in that you can't achieve 1024x768 over HDMI, however if you read the posts by that user then you will see that he has a different TV to yours, and he also gives some incorrect advice in other parts of the thread! therefore i would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

I do not have a VGA connection option. My TV only has component video, S video, or HDMI. Also, I re-read page 42 of the manual and it clearly states that all HDMI input is re-scaled.
Here is a link to the manual, page 42 is the HDMI info, page 46 specs --- > http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH37PX60U.pdf

Sooo.... I will try some more to get 1:1 mapping but failing that is it then best for me to go with 720p HDMI?

 

[Owlsroost]

If it offers 1080p (not 1080i) then try it and see if you like it, otherwise I'd go for 720p. My experience with the nVidia custom resolution settings (on Vista) is that if the TV won't accept it (see below) then nVidia won't generate it, or it will re-scale it on the video card to match what the TV will accept.

If you want the real info on what the TV will accept, download and run Monitor Asset Manager

It produces a report of the EDID data from the TV listing out the available video modes e.g. the relevant section from my Pana FullHD LCD TV is below:

//---------------------------------------------

Standard timings supported

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
DTV underscan............ Not supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 2
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1148 1158 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 1280x720p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 741 746 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #5....... 720x576p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x576" 27.000 720 732 796 864 576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync

CE video data (timings supported)
1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (4:3, 16:15)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 64:45)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 16:15)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
640 x 480p at 60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16-bit at 32/44/48 kHz

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because this is a 1920 x 1080 panel, the '1920 x 1080p' modes are the native/preferred modes in this case i.e. what the video card/windows will choose by default.

Tony

 

[kiwijunglist]

you can try using powerstrip to force the 1024x768 resolution over hdmi/dvi
or you can try VGA connection
typically VGA connection compared to DVI/HDMI is not as good
however 1024x768 is not a high resolution (it's actually fairly low and well within VGA specs) so i think the above comparison is invalid.

i think most important first step is to get 1:1 mapping to avoid double scaling and overscaning issues

Reading the thread you linked I found this comment"the panasonic has an internal scalar that prevents you from doing 1:1 pixel mapping directly over DVI/HDMI. The custom resolution I have posted has been successfully used by several others on this forum."

This seems to be the concern that Owlsroost had posted earlier...

re: this thread here -> HTPC Resolution for Panasonic TH-42px60u - AVS Forum

.... the comment by heart surgeon may be correct in that you can't achieve 1024x768 over HDMI, however if you read the posts by that user then you will see that he has a different TV to yours, and he also gives some incorrect advice in other parts of the thread! therefore i would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

I do not have a VGA connection option. My TV only has component video, S video, or HDMI. Also, I re-read page 42 of the manual and it clearly states that all HDMI input is re-scaled.
Here is a link to the manual, page 42 is the HDMI info, page 46 specs --- > http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH37PX60U.pdf

Sooo.... I will try some more to get 1:1 mapping but failing that is it then best for me to go with 720p HDMI?

ok, since you don't have VGA option to try, you should use HDMI, don't even bother with component/s-video.
try powerstrip 1024x768 (@60Hz) just in case your monitor can display that resolution (even tho it states it can't)
if not you will need to experiement with next best resolution, which will either be 1280x720 or 1920x1080
set aspect ratio = full, then adjust the overscan settings, finally use mediaportal screen calibration utility.

EDIT: I misread component as composite, you could try with component but unlikely to have any advantage over hdmi for your situation

 

[winterescape]

o.k. No go on any custom or the native resolution.
This is the listing:

Monitor
Model name............... PANASONIC-TV
Manufacturer............. Panasonic
Plug and Play ID......... MEIA045
Serial number............ 285570658
Manufacture date......... 2006, ISO week 40
-------------------------

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 15-68kHz
Vertical scan range...... 59-61Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
DTV underscan............ Not supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 720x480p at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 1440x480i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1440x480" 27.000 1440 1478 1602 1716 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 1440x480i at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "1440x480" 27.000 1440 1478 1602 1716 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #5....... 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

CE video data (timings supported)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
640 x 480p at 60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

And at first glance 720P seems to look better than 1080p

 

[kiwijunglist]

Did you try powerstrip? (note powerstrip has a warning that you may damage your display if you feed a nonsupported resolution, use at your own risk.... i havn't heard of anyone damaging their monitor)

It's unfortunate you can't achieve 1024x768, in that case

Desktop resolution = 1280x720 (720P) will definitely look better for browsing the internet, mediaportal menus, playing 720P movies. This is because it is a closer match to your native resolution.

There is a small chance that 1080P movies will look better if you have desktop resolution = 1920x1080, this is because of double scaling (ie scaling with pc and tv if using 720P rez vs' just one scaling step using TV if using 1080P rez)

Setting desktop resolution = 1280x720 is your best bet.